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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

ReSale Prices

A

Arnold F.

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I'm kind of blown away about how fast the Scarlet and DSMC items are losing value. I feel like the price drops every week. The motto should be Obsolescence Guaranteed!
 
I'm also blown away to see so many people thinking that their year old Epic Dragon is still worith the same price as in the RED store.

Pat
 
Instead of 50% of original value, which is basically what RED products re-sell for. I'll be lucky to get 50% for my stuff and lot of it is brand new/never used. Plus the guys who PM with the bizarre lowball offers and the various other time-wasters.


Patrick Tresch said:
I'm also blown away to see so many people thinking that their year old Epic Dragon is still worith the same price as in the RED store.

Pat
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Well Im guilty for the low ball prices (maybe not that low) due to the Canadian dollar being so terribly low compared to US :(

Its tough staying afloat when your paying up to 27% more for anything :P

As far as the Scarlet, mine is still priceless :)

She serves me well and I will be holding on to her till the bitter end.

Sure if I win the lottery Ill give her a big brother to play with :)
 
Arnold F. said:
Instead of 50% of original value, which is basically what RED products re-sell for. I'll be lucky to get 50% for my stuff and lot of it is brand new/never used. Plus the guys who PM with the bizarre lowball offers and the various other time-wasters.
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So where do i find a dragon brain for half the price of list price? I been looking but can not find it....

All I find is people that think that they will sell their old dragons with large ssd module and some accessories for about the same as list price, which I think is nuts. I know tax comes on top of the listed prices and so on. But used cameras needs to be shipped back and forth to red and also the owner transfer fee etc... and it´s not the latest and greatest model of camera at this date, I know weapon is not out just yet but still to me it´s quite fascinating that the dragons still hold such good value, and even more fascinating that people complain about it.
 
Shouldn't price be judged according to how many hours the camera has been used? Just like a used car.
 
Christoffer Glans said:
Shouldn't price be judged according to how many hours the camera has been used? Just like a used car.
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I don´t think so. A red camera has one moving part, the fan... that can easily be replaced. The rest is solid state and if the current status is "working good" then the amount of hours used is pretty much just a good sign that it will continue to do so.

You know that Roy Andersen has over 4 years of use on his redone mx... and it´s kicking without issues, he does not like to turn the camera off so while he shot his last film (which took over 4 years) he had the camera turned on during pretty much the whole production. I think that kind of proves the above :)

For the brain I think if the sensor and connectors has no issues the camera is as good as good as a new one, and for those that do not like a few scratches in the paint of the boy the cost to get the brain exterior replaced is not much.

Then when doing the owner transfer thing I understand that it´s possible to get that with an insurance and the original insurance is void. So that pretty much, atleast to me, sets all working cameras to pretty much the same value, no?
 
Björn Benckert said:
So that pretty much, atleast to me, sets all working cameras to pretty much the same value, no?
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But you said

All I find is people that think that they will sell their old dragons with large ssd module and some accessories for about the same as list price, which I think is nuts.
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If the entire camera except fans and moving parts is just considered to "the same" as in a new camera then it's nothing strange with people having close to the new price when selling it used?
The list price gets lower and lower and keeping just under it would be correct for a used camera, taking into account the warranty and transfer fees, but those sums aren't more than $2500 in my case, which when taking into account the list price of $24000 would mean that a used Red Dragon brain should definitely be worth around $20000 if runtime is irrelevant. Then minus the cost of getting new fans if it's been working for long. So $19500?
 
You have to take into account the fact that RED Weapon trade in prices that were announced for Scarlet/Epic Dragons and regular Epics and Scarlets influenced used market priced. A lot of offers I see basically value a camera brain the same as RED trade-in value.
 
Christoffer Glans said:
But you said



If the entire camera except fans and moving parts is just considered to "the same" as in a new camera then it's nothing strange with people having close to the new price when selling it used?
The list price gets lower and lower and keeping just under it would be correct for a used camera, taking into account the warranty and transfer fees, but those sums aren't more than $2500 in my case, which when taking into account the list price of $24000 would mean that a used Red Dragon brain should definitely be worth around $20000 if runtime is irrelevant. Then minus the cost of getting new fans if it's been working for long. So $19500?
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But the warranty is better for a new camera... and used, to me atleast, is not as nice. Normally no matter what you but a laptop, phone or whatever as soon as you break the packaging about 25% of the original value is gone. And again as weapon is soon to be out, in my mind the demand for used dragons would go down so prices would drop, but I don't see it. I think dragon body used 15k USD would be about what it´s worth but that I have not found.
 
Demetri Zuev said:
A lot of offers I see basically value a camera brain the same as RED trade-in value.
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People will make that offer but IMO a seller would be foolish to take it. Why go through the bother and risk of advertising, selling, transferring and shipping the thing for the same money as a little to no effort trade in?

Some sellers will take it, and that is why buyers make the offer. Funny, no?
 
People were trying to get $1,800+ for used, scraped up 5" TOUCH LCDs a few months ago, lol. But I respect the free market.
 
Dragon-sensored cameras are holding their value quite well. Epic X or Scarlet without the Dragon sensor are losing value due to the current cost of the Dragon sensor upgrade which is $12,000.

By doing reverse pricing, you take the price for a used Dragon and subtract $12,000 and you have the price for a non-Dragon Epic or Scarlet. And of course there is the cost of ownership change... and the fact a new brain Epic Dragon is not much more.
 
Scott Crawley said:
Why go through the bother and risk of advertising, selling, transferring and shipping the thing for the same money as a little to no effort trade in?
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Not everyone's staying with RED, many are going Alexa mini/URSA mini these days.
 
Demetri Zuev said:
Not everyone's staying with RED, many are going Alexa mini/URSA mini these days.
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The marketplace is bigger and more diverse and that has it's own effect on values, sure. There is effectively more supply.

Are you making some other point though?
 
Demetri Zuev said:
You have to take into account the fact that RED Weapon trade in prices that were announced for Scarlet/Epic Dragons and regular Epics and Scarlets influenced used market priced. A lot of offers I see basically value a camera brain the same as RED trade-in value.
Click to expand...

Understood, so for epic M dragon that would be 17.5k USD, I dont find too many brains for that price, and I forgot what the trade in vlaue was for epic X dragon but it was less still no cameras around for that price... and to me given the price for a new dragon X body, the used price for a 4 year old camera, even though it gone trough a dragon upgrade and so on should possibly sell for less but no, So with all that said where is this huge price drop everyone is talking about?

Compare it to computers, how much of original price do you out when you try to sell your 4 year old computer? Lets say a mac pro? I think less than half normally even if you swapped the graphics card and filled it up with extra ram, and these cameras are much more specialized tools, normally such fall in value even quicker. So compare them to SGI computers or such, they go from a couple of 100k USD new and 4 years later you pay to have them picked up as trash... just as a comparison.
 
Björn Benckert said:
these cameras are much more specialized tools, normally such fall in value even quicker. So compare them to SGI computers or such, they go from a couple of 100k USD new and 4 years later you pay to have them picked up as trash... just as a comparison.
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Actually, more specialized items can hold their value longer due to lesser supply... given that there is still a demand for them.

In the case of a computer system and it's replaceable parts it is a matter of those items loosing their usefulness. If they can no longer complete the tasks they were designed and bought for then they have become truly obsolete. Using an editing station as an example; when the computer can no longer run the user's preferred software or the system can no longer process the footage coming in it becomes functionally obsolete.

A computer in a camera system is a different animal in that software does not drive value perception as much. People buy camera systems on the merit of the images they produce more than software dependent features and software release for that closed system is controlled by the manufacturer. That allows the camera manufacturer to control the system and fewer outside factors are allowed to devalue it. As long as the camera system can continue to function as it was meant to and it's images remain in demand it can retain or even appreciate in market value.
 
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Scott Crawley said:
The marketplace is bigger and more diverse and that has it's own effect on values, sure. There is effectively more supply.

Are you making some other point though?
Click to expand...

My point is - if you're staying with RED of course it makes no sense to sell your camera for the same price as a trade in value, but it does make sense for some if you're switching to some other camera system.
 
Yeah, I don't think Scarlet-X brains are worth that much. Especially for those buying into RED -- if you already have accessories/kit for RED, it's not so bad, but if you're buying in, why would you pay more than competing products (like the FS7, FS700 + 7Q/Atomos, A7s + 7Q/Atomos, GH4 + 7Q/Atomos, BMD, etc. with way more coming...) And if RED puts out BT Epics for $4k anytime soon, pfffffttt forgeddaboutit.

Digital Cameras are technology... not like cars, but like computers. And when you think of them more like computers it's fairly understandably why they're selling for 50% *after 3 years of being on the market* (regardless of when you bought it). My 2012 PC still functions perfect; runs the latest Windows, has 24GB of RAM, 4GHz Quadcore, TBs of RAIDed storage... I can't get 20% for it.
 
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