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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Renting an Epic versus Buying the 5D Mark iii

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Benjamin Leatherwood

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Background: I have scripted a fifteen minute short film which I will be directing, producing, editing and Im sure a bunch of other jobs that Im excited about.

The issue: Nearly everyone involved in the production wants to shoot in 1080p, using the just released Canon 5D Mark iii, so that we can shoot next month. To me it's not just about making it but making it right and learning about a camera and a technology that has an expiration date, seems like it might be a mistake.

I want to shoot it in 4K and in the process learn as much as I can about the EPIC's capabilities, its workflow, coloring...etc. All with the purpose of telling a story in the best way possible by conveying emotion and tone that resonates with an audience. Due to the budget, an EPIC rental is my only option and it probably only be for a weekend ($3000-4000 Camera Budget). I realize the RED EPIC isnt going to make the movie for me and the person operating it needs to have a certain skill set to be able to capture the emotion of the story. With that in mind we will be using a 4 track field recorder with A Rode NTG3 Shotgun as this seems to be the one area that first time filmmakers regret not focusing on. With a professional crew, wardrobe, hair, makeup and the kind of lighting that enhances the look of the image, this project has all the proper tools it needs for success.

In the end it comes down to buying equipment versus renting. Once the EPIC goes back to the rental house its gone and I can no longer create art with it and while I am in the position where a lot of effort can go into post production that means little if the footage we get is sub par. At this point in time I feel as though I am stuck between two technologies, one that I can afford and the one I really want to use and learn about. Is 48hrs with the EPIC worth three grand? Is that enough time to get up to speed? Am I setting myself up for disaster with that little lead time? Is trying to film with one camera borderline crazy? Any and all suggestions and comments are welcome. Thank you for taking the time to help a rookie filmmaker.
 
Is this a question to ask?

go Epic!

get half a day at rental for prep and lern the camera, it's dead easy. At least as the 5dMkIII
 
If you were doing a feature...and hoped to have it projected at some point somewhere..one could make
a case for going 4K Epic.

But for a short which will have little to no financial return...it's gonna be huge on your budget.
You could even make a case to go way cheaper than 5D..like GH2 or T2i.
Don't put it all in at once...live to fight(create) again and all that.
 
Benjamin Leatherwood said:
Background: I have scripted a fifteen minute short film which I will be directing, producing, editing and Im sure a bunch of other jobs that Im excited about.

The issue: Nearly everyone involved in the production wants to shoot in 1080p, using the just released Canon 5D Mark iii, so that we can shoot next month. To me it's not just about making it but making it right and learning about a camera and a technology that has an expiration date, seems like it might be a mistake.

I want to shoot it in 4K and in the process learn as much as I can about the EPIC's capabilities, its workflow, coloring...etc. All with the purpose of telling a story in the best way possible by conveying emotion and tone that resonates with an audience. Due to the budget, an EPIC rental is my only option and it probably only be for a weekend ($3000-4000 Camera Budget). I realize the RED EPIC isnt going to make the movie for me and the person operating it needs to have a certain skill set to be able to capture the emotion of the story. With that in mind we will be using a 4 track field recorder with A Rode NTG3 Shotgun as this seems to be the one area that first time filmmakers regret not focusing on. With a professional crew, wardrobe, hair, makeup and the kind of lighting that enhances the look of the image, this project has all the proper tools it needs for success.

In the end it comes down to buying equipment versus renting. Once the EPIC goes back to the rental house its gone and I can no longer create art with it and while I am in the position where a lot of effort can go into post production that means little if the footage we get is sub par. At this point in time I feel as though I am stuck between two technologies, one that I can afford and the one I really want to use and learn about. Is 48hrs with the EPIC worth three grand? Is that enough time to get up to speed? Am I setting myself up for disaster with that little lead time? Is trying to film with one camera borderline crazy? Any and all suggestions and comments are welcome. Thank you for taking the time to help a rookie filmmaker.
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Ask for a discount. You should be able to get it for less as an interested first time customer.
Drug rules apply even to camera rentals... first time is usually for free :)
 
Your best bet is to find a DP/owner/op who is into your project and willing to try for something special.
Most of the best films on my reel were passion projects I shot for little or no money because the material was strong and the creative opportunity was compelling.
 
5Dmk3 looks great at 720p, EPIC looks great at 4k. 5Dmk3 doesn't look so great at 1080p, only "DSLR" I've seen that does is GH2. What are your delivery format or specifications or aspirations? Why not consider Scarlet?

Personally I'd never choose a Canon DSLR (used them all pretty extensively, heard enough about 5dmk3 to know its not a lot better) to shoot a serious project anymore. I loved them for years, but unless you absolutely have to have the shallowest depth of field you can afford by shooting full frame 35mm on a 5Dmk3 or your hands are tied by production (someone owns a 5Dmk3 and you cannot afford to anything else) I see no reason to choose a 5Dmk3. Think about shooting FS100, Scarlet, F3, C300 etc. All camera technology has an expiration date, but some of your knowledge always rolls over especially nowadays. DSLR's for video had an expiration date of about a year ago. You can still make amazing content with them, but why would you when you can get real video cameras that outperform them in every way for under $5k? Or 4k digital cinema camera for not much more...
 
And why Epic? Why not Scarlet? If you just want 4K 24fps, then Scarlet is fine. I'm sure...as someone said... an owner/operator/DP with a Scarlet can give you a much better price than $4k.

Also, as an aside, I caution you to NOT SKIMP ON SOUND. Ever. That's where you should pay a good rate. Having already financed countless passion projects, I can tell you from experience that sound is a MUST.

On the flip side, never underestimate the value of owning your own camera, even a DSLR. I own a 60D, and as a director/producer I've learned more from (this admittedly flawed) camera than I could ever imagine. 20 lenses later, I'm so much more informed than I ever thought I'd be before I bought it.

I feel much more prepared for our transition to Scarlet than I could ever have been if I hadn't first started on the DSLR training wheels.

Good luck.
 
Looks like I overestimated the cost of an EPIC rental, I just found a package in Seattle for $1500 a day, no weekend rate and thought that was close to the going rate. Scarlet would be cheaper and might allow me to get two, so thanks for the input.
 
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