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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Rentals

J

John Logan

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Hi all,

I know there are other threads dealing with this topic, but I feel like they aren't quite up-to-date, so to speak.

This question is for all the Red One owners in the Los Angeles area. How often do you rent your kits out? What is the going day rate for the standard kit? I've looked at the websites, and I've read about how rates are plummeting, but I'm interested to see what things are like right now. Also, do you find that you rent your gear often enough to cover the cost of the equipment?

I'm not looking to "get rich" off of the Red One, that horse is dead and has been beaten a million times at this point, what I am hoping to do is to rent my kit out two or three days a month to cover the cost of financing.

All opinions are appreciated, thanks for the input!

- Logan
 
Interesting article, but it has no bearing whatsoever on my situation. Not to mention that it's argument is terribly flawed... Again, I said:

"I'm not looking to "get rich" off of the Red One, that horse is dead and has been beaten a million times at this point, what I am hoping to do is to rent my kit out two or three days a month to cover the cost of financing.

My financing costs are not going to exceed more than a few days of rental each month. All I need to do is off-set the cost, not make a living off of it.
 
I've priced out a RED package several times and it really depends on what lenses you want.

Super Speeds are $35-$50k. Even Standard Speeds are $18-28k. Old zooms are $11-25k. Cookes/Angenieuxs/MP you are in a different ball game.

Depending on how you finance loan/lease etc. you are looking at a $1500-2500 /month payment, depending on the length of your loan/lease and the total coast of your camera package.

Not to mention insurance, which if you are in NYC you most definitely need. :waaa:

So if you are confident that you can charge that much for your package, then you should be OK. The main hiccup comes 2 or 3 years down the road when you are still making the payments but the Scarlet/Epic is out.

Good luck.

Matt
 
My question is...how would anyone else here know if you can rent your camera 2-3 times a month? I own multiple cameras, grip trucks, dollies, cranes, generators and I don't know if any of them will get rented 2-3 times a month...I wish I did. I'm thinking you may have to figure that out yourself.
Again I said: My question is...how would anyone else here know if you can rent your camera 2-3 times a month? I own multiple cameras, grip trucks, dollies, cranes, generators and I don't know if any of them will get rented 2-3 times a month...I wish I did. I'm thinking you may have to figure that out yourself.
Again I said: My question is...how would anyone else here know if you can rent your camera 2-3 times a month? I'm thinking you may have to figure that out yourself.
Logan said:
Interesting article, but it has no bearing whatsoever on my situation. Not to mention that it's argument is terribly flawed... Again, I said:

"I'm not looking to "get rich" off of the Red One, that horse is dead and has been beaten a million times at this point, what I am hoping to do is to rent my kit out two or three days a month to cover the cost of financing.

My financing costs are not going to exceed more than a few days of rental each month. All I need to do is off-set the cost, not make a living off of it.
Click to expand...
 
Greetings...and good morning redusers. There is much truth in the statements that are being shared here...Part of me would say if you are an early serial number then you have been in the game long enough to hold to your network, and to your advantage your you have clients, customers, friends, and people that need you...what ever you want call it.

My point is times are without a doubt changing rapidly over night and many are just trying to survive...and yes I include myself in this conversation. I really feel that RED is not the investment that you should make for your rental business unless you have solid finances for support...and for many I feel you want a RED cause you have a mission, a goal, and I say go for it. To declare the state of RED in the market is quite abstract for me cause we are all individuals with our own purpose, with our own dreams. As an individual who has been riding this roller coaster from the beginning I continue to strive for what I always hoped for. Interesting times we live in.

Best

Haskell
 
Zaphod said:
Yeah, fine for owner/operators to still use, but almost impossible to dry hire.
Click to expand...

Hi,

However if your clients like hype, they will want an Epic or Scarlet.

Stephen
 
Very competitive pricing is a large part of the equation but when our camera goes out many other items rent as well. And some are very profitable which can make up for a breakeven situation. And while the article points out the number of feature films in production, there are commercials, television programs, documentaries, industrial shoots, music videos & infomercials… can they benefit from shooting RED? Depends on the cost of entry.

In these early stages, RED camera rentals are being treated as a loss leader for us… more importantly is the investment in widespread acceptance and long term relationships in which we put the highest value. Building our business one rental at a time. Our camera went out for 14 days (with multi-day rates of course) in December, before it was stolen and almost every rental was from a first timer user. And every rental came from someone that attended one of our free weekly seminars.

So again, widespread acceptance and hands-on time is what drives our lower pricing rationale. I believe the disapointed feeling over the drop in rental prices for this camera is because it was overpriced early on. While accessories can drive the cost well over $40,000, even $50,000 it starts with a $17,000 body that can ALMOST be used out of the box. This is not a 435 or 535 and the rental price needs to reflect that when the market is saturated. And what technology doesn’t drop in price as time goes on? Most times, early adopters gain from experience and other positive factors but lose in the short term from a financial perspective.

And then there is thinking ‘outside of the box’ so to speak… get the camera in front of unlikely suspects as we have and you create a niche for yourself. Remember that the camera is just one of the forthcoming pieces of the puzzle (workflow, post-production, services, distribution, etc.). New models exist that both sides could benefit from.

So can you cover your lease payments? Look in the right places, provide other pieces of the rental and I think without question. Can you get rich? Someone is going to other than just the RED Digital Camera Company!

Regards,
Billy
 
Let's remember what the Red One is: a computer with a lens mount. The unfortunate reality of computers is the technology changes very quickly. Within two years, there will be a more advanced model. You must be able to recoup your investment in less than 24 months just to break even. It's the opposite of a film camera, where the most of the image advancements came from new film stocks and the camera body had a 10+ year life span.

If I were starting from scratch today, I'd ONLY buy glass and accessories. These items will have a far greater life span than the "computer with a lens mount". Rent the camera body when you have a shoot, and use your profits to buy more/better lenses, etc.

Chris
 
Yes, if you are starting now ... glass and accessories are definitely the way to go! Even a good lighting kit would be a great way to recoup your investment, as with all of the above the technology moves at a snails pace.
 
Billy Mead said:
Very competitive pricing is a large part of the equation but when our camera goes out many other items rent as well. And some are very profitable which can make up for a breakeven situation. And while the article points out the number of feature films in production, there are commercials, television programs, documentaries, industrial shoots, music videos & infomercials… can they benefit from shooting RED? Depends on the cost of entry.

In these early stages, RED camera rentals are being treated as a loss leader for us… more importantly is the investment in widespread acceptance and long term relationships in which we put the highest value. Building our business one rental at a time. Our camera went out for 14 days (with multi-day rates of course) in December, before it was stolen and almost every rental was from a first timer user. And every rental came from someone that attended one of our free weekly seminars.

So again, widespread acceptance and hands-on time is what drives our lower pricing rationale. I believe the disapointed feeling over the drop in rental prices for this camera is because it was overpriced early on. While accessories can drive the cost well over $40,000, even $50,000 it starts with a $17,000 body that can ALMOST be used out of the box. This is not a 435 or 535 and the rental price needs to reflect that when the market is saturated. And what technology doesn’t drop in price as time goes on? Most times, early adopters gain from experience and other positive factors but lose in the short term from a financial perspective.

And then there is thinking ‘outside of the box’ so to speak… get the camera in front of unlikely suspects as we have and you create a niche for yourself. Remember that the camera is just one of the forthcoming pieces of the puzzle (workflow, post-production, services, distribution, etc.). New models exist that both sides could benefit from.

So can you cover your lease payments? Look in the right places, provide other pieces of the rental and I think without question. Can you get rich? Someone is going to other than just the RED Digital Camera Company!

Regards,
Billy
Click to expand...

Billy,
excellent post....thanks for sharing
D
 
Anytime you have a camera in one hand, a list of contacts/clients in the other, and determination, there is always money to be made. In these times, you may have to get creative, offer incentives, and take a gamble or two but it really does come down to the way things have been done for years. Having a 4K camera and know-how is powerful. So is having an HPX3000, an HV-20, a super8 camera, etc.

I contend that it's best to worry about Epic/Scarlet when they arrive in the market and in the meantime find opportunities for the Red One. Keep an open mind. If you're in a cut-throat market find ways to sweeten the package. It's not always about gear. There are other ways to do that.

I know Stephen Williams may come off as a glas half empty kind of guy, but he's usually taking the realist perspective and that's fine. I respect that, and I know he shoots with Red, so it's not like he hates the camera. But his overall point is a wise one I suppose. We have to be realistic about these matters. My perspective falls somewhere between realist and optimist. To me, there's still a lot of good opportunities out there. One just fell in my lap the other day.
 
Stephen Williams said:
Hi,

However if your clients like hype, they will want an Epic or Scarlet.

Stephen
Click to expand...

Sure, some folks will want to rent an Epic or Scarlet because they "like hype" -

But let's be real here Stephen.

The moment they (Scarlet/Epic) are released - folks will test side-by-side with the RED ONE.

I know I will.

The results will speak for themselves, and I expect it will be a pretty short period of time before cameras with the Mysterium X sensor will be in high demand.
 
Another piece of advice I'd throw out there is that you need to know who you're renting to and cater to them. If they're going to be shooting tons of handheld, then you'll need to buy a mantis, if they are shooting places without any power, you'll need 6-8 batteries or some block batteries, there are tons of RED One's out there now but that doesn't mean that everyone out there is listening to the client base and making sure people are being taken care of. Do you have a second camera or a network of people you can talk to to get a second camera if something goes wrong? These are just a few of the questions to ask yourself. The LA area has tons and tons of cameras so you better plan on distinguishing yourself really fast if you're headed into the rental market. At this point, unless you've got a lot of contacts or a lot of advertising money, you're probably a little late on getting a foothold, but hopefully that just gives you more drive to go out and prove me wrong.
 
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