Rental looking like it's gone bad ...

[Tyrone Braithwaite]

The law is behind here though Will. What the law is saying is that they may return the equipment *at some point* and until then it's not clear that it's not coming back - then it's not theft. The insurance company however are more keen to call it fraudulent theft.

Obviously to me it's not complex, I'm owed £40K and the inconvenience, and luckily my insurance policy appears to be operating as expected but at the moment it's a bit of a waiting game, and getting a crime no. from the cops is a nightmare. Will keep you posted.

It's stupid this is so complicated.

You rented your gear, they never returned it. They TOOK it from you. That's theft, involuntary parting and most likely collusion. What else would it be covered under?

 

[Will Keir]

Please do keep us posted. Also, wondering what insurance you are using as I have a thread for recommended insurance carriers I'd like to update.

There must be some sort of insurance that covers you costs while you wait. That's a good 2-4 weeks unpaid at a bad time of year.

 

[egon touste]

Here in denmark when a string of rental companies were hit both burglery and fraud - they had fake ID's and at least in one instance claimed they were from the Danish film institute, which ofcourse was a lie... and they knew about the equipment.

- btw fraud is often NOT covered by insurance....

Rental insurance (like mine and most probably tyrone and chris') will most likely cover fraud. if you took details and id etc, and it was fraudulently taken, with fake id, its covered by such policies

 

[Sam Taylor]

Sorry that you have to go through this. It is bad that there is this "loop hole" in the law, that can be exploited by thieves. May the police speedily give you the crime number that you need!

 

[Brendan Burdzinski]

This upsets me. I really hope this is resolved quickly.

 

[Sidney L. Plaut]

Rental insurance (like mine and most probably tyrone and chris') will most likely cover fraud. if you took details and id etc, and it was fraudulently taken, with fake id, its covered by such policies

You would be surprised... if you hand over equipment voluntarily, then its not as clear as some point out.

 

[Michael Brennan]

The argument I'm being fed by the police is this case is not criminal, it's civil etc. So at which point does it become criminal then rather than just a breach of t&c?

In English law if you have given them lawful control of the goods it is not a criminal action.
For instance, if you handed the kit over to them and they took it with your knowledge and they have a contract then they have lawful control.
if you dispatched the kit to a particular address and someone interfered with the courier and told them to go to another address then that is unlawful control. (i had this occur with a video tape that was meant to go to a post house but the courier was redirected without my knowledge to a production manager's house who then demanded money from the client for return of the tape!)


Note that if they are genuine and have come unstuck and the goods were seized then most insurances do not cover loss of hire or damage caused by customs officials.

If they have breached your contract by taking kit abroad then it is still sadly nothing more than a civil matter.

I imagine that the charge of "theft by deception" could be the case if you can prove they used false IDs and they have not returned the equipment.. but this is academic if they disappear.

all the best,


Mike Brennan

 

[Scott Brown]

Hi Tyrone

Really sorry to hear about your camera going missing.

I'm based in Aberdeen and this is a very unusual thing to happen here. I have never heard of these guys but I live near to the address they have for their office and if you cannot get a hold of them, I'm happy to drop by and check them out.

The film and production world to me is about honesty and integrity and I don't take kindly to those who let the industry down :angry:

Steve - thanks for your call earlier in the week!

Tyrone, please let me know if I can be of any help!

Best wishes

Scott

 

[Tyrone Braithwaite]

Thanks Scott.

No more real updates - we did get the police out and whilst they were sympathetic agreed to do some initial enquiries they can't really give it a crime number.

Insurance is underway but slower than I'd hoped.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Rental insurance (like mine and most probably tyrone and chris') will most likely cover fraud. if you took details and id etc, and it was fraudulently taken, with fake id, its covered by such policies

Not by default. You need "conversion" insurance for willfully and happily handing the item over to someone else who doesn't return it. Conversion insurance can triple your premium.

 

[Tyrone Braithwaite]

Just to update ... insurance all sorted now. Got the new kit (Thanks Sam@Red).

No real Police investigation involved though I've had a visit from the Police, who aren't going to pursue anything but they're at least listening to me. Another Red guy who had his camera stolen in very very similar circumstances is in touch with me and we're are trying to join dots - as they're obviously following the same path. This may help us with the Police.

Made some tweaks to the way we hire out, but at the end of the day the risk is still there so be cautious and ask as many questions as you can to your hirer.

Got a few upgrades (the 9" Touch is great, and added a battle 18" prime and some canon lenses).