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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RELEASED: RED Final Cut Studio 2 Installer

Shawn Nelson said:
WTF? We've had that forever. What's different? what are people jumping about? That seems really weird to claim 'native R3D' when in fact you cant actually bring an R3D in. What am I missing here...
Click to expand...

I can't help but feel a little less excited after reading this post....
 
Chris Hagan said:
I can't help but feel a little less excited after reading this post....
Click to expand...

I'm not trying to douse excitement, I'm just trying to figure out why people are happy about 'native' R3D and yet also saying you have to wrap them. We've been able to 'natively' edit R3Ds via those Quicktime reference files for a long time.

I'm not at my Mac so I can't try it now, just hoped someone would give me a few line reply to straighten this out.
 
We haven't had the "re-wrapping" we've had to transcode to ProRes. Apparently there is a difference. I haven't tried it yet, have to wait till I'm at the office in the morning. It seems like it's not as good as what Adobe is doing but the re-wrapping it at least another alternative than the transcode to ProRes we've had to do until now. If the performance is better, well that remains to be seen!
 
Shawn, Apple, Inc. will NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER EVER allow any other format besides Quicktime to be dropped into their timelines. Remember the MXF days?? Apple's mantra has been, All video must pass through quicktime. Whereas FCP will accept a number of audio related files. What this update does is streamline the process more efficiently. Yea, we could edit with the proxies in FCP before but look at the complicated workflow!!

1. Dump cards
2. Drag & Drop each M or H file into FCP.
3. Edit with those dark, soft proxies.
4. Send XML to Crimson.
5. Send to Redcine.
6. Send to DPX or QT Pro-Res.
7. Send to Color.
8. CC in Color.
9. Send XML back to FCP using Crimson.
10. Reconform in FCP.
11. Output


Now we can effectively,

1. Dump cards.
2. Ingest into FCP using Log&Transfer, native input.
3. Edit.
4. Send sequence to Color.
5. CC the native R3D files in Color.
6. Render & send clips/sequence back to FCP.
7. Reconform.
8. Output.


Dude, I just saved 3 steps. That's feckin huge.

We always knew Color Support was coming. I just didn't know how integrated with FCP this was going to be.

This is the biggest surprise ever & I can't wait to get home to play around..

Thanks Red team for all the hard work.
 
haven't tested yet but wrapping a file dosen't meen you are referencing it
maybe you wrap the 3rd file like you would do to in gluetools for dpx.
Joust a way to make the files readable for FCP
 
Cüneyt Kaya said:
1.
the conform is easier now.
thats the major thing.
you can have a finished timeline---send to color---render out a dpx sequence and go to CC.
2.
the ingest is pretty fast.
think of transcoding to pro res (time, frozen frame problems etc.)
storage is cheap...time not
Click to expand...

i think kaya has pretty much summed up the advantages, shawn.

it's a timesaver. but it isn't quite native r3d....

disadvantages are that you can't really fully implement RA and RC for easy tweaking, that's why for many projects, the BigT workflow still rules...

it's really a good way to work 2K files faster...
 
Shawn Nelson said:
I'm not trying to douse excitement, I'm just trying to figure out why people are happy about 'native' R3D and yet also saying you have to wrap them. We've been able to 'natively' edit R3Ds via those Quicktime reference files for a long time.

I'm not at my Mac so I can't try it now, just hoped someone would give me a few line reply to straighten this out.
Click to expand...

it's actual native support.
this means that when you sent those "rewrapped" R3Ds to Color you can change natively actual Raw settings inside Color while grading. i'm talkin' about the settings you find in Redcine ...
 
Shawn Nelson said:
I'm not trying to douse excitement, I'm just trying to figure out why people are happy about 'native' R3D and yet also saying you have to wrap them. We've been able to 'natively' edit R3Ds via those Quicktime reference files for a long time.

I'm not at my Mac so I can't try it now, just hoped someone would give me a few line reply to straighten this out.
Click to expand...

I think it's the R3D support in Color that's new/exciting. Also, log and transfer doesn't require you to transcode into Pro Res (That's "Native"). Judging from the way FCP tends to work, I don't think we'll be getting rid of the QT wraps anytime soon.
 
Yes, regarding the Log and Transfer, I don't get it.

I have tried a quick round of tests using the 'native' function and here is what I observe- the files that FCP generates in the capture scratch are almost exactly the same size as the original R3D, they show up as 2048x1024 (I have 4K 2:1 footage), and I really do not see any playback performance increase of over using the 'H' proxies. I really don't see what this is getting us?

However, in Color, the new RED tab is pretty cool! I was also VERY nice to send to Color. As much as we liked Crimson Workflow, this is just SO nice!!!

When rendering in Color, the new files are ProRes HQ by default (as was the sequence in FCP). I also sent back to FCP with no problems.

Just leaves the log and transfer question. As someone pointed out already, I hope we can continue to edit with the proxies and then find a way to send to Color That way, it seems there will be no waiting to render except for the final grade. How nice would that be.

Just my 2 cents- thank you RED for turning on yet another awesome feature!
 
On-set looks in FCP??

On-set looks in FCP??

Two questions for anyone already testing (chomping at the bit for second week in December when our kit finally arrives).

1/ What happens to looks set in camera when you're cutting in FCP? Do the clips a/appear right (changed by the look) in the timeline and b/do the clips carry the look out to a monitor via BMD/AJA cards?

2/Is there any way in FCP to access RAW data to make adjustments to the look metadata prior to going to Color?

Very exciting stuff and, as someone has already said, it'll be even better in a Cocoa based FCS running under Snow Leopard.

Oh, a third question. Anyone trying long/numerous R3D clips in Color without problems?
 
Thank you Red for your hard work and give us another great option of working. The Color option seems great, but I am not convinced about the log and transfer.

I can see that because of Apple's nature of using only quicktimes there will not be an easy native way of working with r3d without transcoding them. I can see more realistic that Red brings a new firmware that writes these new Quicktime Red instead of R3D, but this might be just my imagination or science fiction.

So unfortunately, as much as I love Final Cut, I think if premier is able to work with native R3D files the way I think the will, I might start thinking of getting some tutorials on premier. But then we don't have Color...

As for now, I am going to stick with Big Ts workflow for most of my work, and if some footage really needs to have a major Color Grade, then I might use this transcoding pain in the A@#$. Sorry for the language.

I don't want to sound ungrateful to Reds hardwork, thank you again, but I'm getting really tired of Apple's Mantras.
 
I just tested 16:9 HD 4min clip with sound and everything, including going to Color and back worked fine!

AWESOME!

One thing I need to know how to do is how to set the footage to Redspace gamma instead of Rec709 BEFORE going to Color (for the offline edit). Anyone?
 
Glad everyone is so excited and happy, but...

...has anyone gotten it to work yet? I have tried it a couple different ways and have not. Every time I send it to Color, I get a "X" thumbnail that usually means unsupported Codec.

I've tried it both ways that the RED Doc said (Workflow 2 & 3).

The easiest seems to be #3. Here is what I've done:
-Imported the clip as "Native" so in FCP, it shows as 23.98p, 2048x1024, REDCode.
-I did a new sequence preset per the specs they said in the document (23.98fps, 2048x1024, Apple ProRes 422 (HQ)
-I drop a clip in the sequence (and select "no")
-I render it out
-I "Send to Color"

That's it. Should work. I get the "X."

Anyone else get it to work?

Kevin
 
For the Log & Transfer function, I would look at the big picture: Final Cut server.
Making the R3D files wrapped into self contained QT's but still native REDCODE makes a lot of sense when tied into this whole infrastructure.
And Apple is using vast resources making this work.

A QT unwrapper (QT>R3D) or REDCODE QT input into the other RED tools (Red alert, redrushes, redcine) would make sense as currently you have a problem if you ever want to make RAW deliverables to a thirdparty after going QT.

But we can still use the proxies in FCP, send the sequence to color, and grade natively now, you dont have to rewrap using log and transfer to get nativeness in color.
 
Florian...you said an "HD" clip. Does that mean you did not get the RAW to work...as in the "RED Room" under "Primary"?
 
HD meaning the clip was shot setting the camera at 4KHD (3840x2160).

I did get everything to work in Color. It's all good. The one thing I can't get to work is the native file in FCP to display in Redspace Gamma BEFORE going to Color. It displays in Rec709.
 
16x9 and anamorphic footage from build 18 seems to work just fine for me. I personally don't like the 2k proxies workflow but Media Managing the ProRes clips back to REDCODE seems to work just fine. My only issue with this approach is its an extra step in the process. What would be great is if we could choose in L&T our proxy resolution for input into FCP so you don't have to work with 2K files that are quite system and disk speed intensive at this point. If we could transcode to ProRes, and automatically Conform in Color in R3D to access all the RAW data, that would be great. I understand this is not realistic right now and this is a great start. L&T should allow us to choose a working color space, resolution and .RCC/RSX files for one lights in editorial.

So far this is a nice tool for short form projects (like the manual suggests) but I wouldn't use it realistically for longer form projects. That said, with a little improvement this could be a huge independent post tool that will harness the power of RED RAW and put it in many edit suites across the world.
 
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