Release Date yet?

[Sao_Bento]

There should be a moratorium on comparing Scarlet to cameras that exist and can be purchased.

ABSOLUTELY.

 

[Miguel Cunha]

Why not?

Why not?

it could be nice from red to say if they are able or not to deliver the scarlet since the end of the year ... was hoping for a first model in september or some news .. but as i see .. nothing .. should i look in other brand ?

Where you gonna go, Panasonic, Sony, Canon? If you were convinced of the others, you probably would have made that decision already.

As far as I'm concerned - and state this being a RED fan - that's a very strong possibility, due to the course of things.

As I stated several times, I've been following RED's very entusiastic project since the very beginning and the Team's ideas and achievements. This goes years back, when I deicided that RED would be a very good solution to my needs.


However, everytihng in life has a timing.

There was RED ONE, Tested by Peter Jackson, used by Steven Soderbergh in two features, lots of testemonials...

Then there was about to hapen a miracle. New RED camera models with great specs at unbelievable costs... RED Scarlet, Epic... Highly configurable, flexible versatile, tons of options to make just about anything your creativity might dare...

Release dates. Everyone waiting anxiously, with the money in the pocket, ready to invade RED with orders, like if they were in those ultra promotions, that make people sleep all night long in line, in front of the mall, waiting for it to open the doors.


And then...

The mall didn't open. They appologized for the inconvenience. They had these breathtaking, breakthrough new ideas, improvments and a system that you can customize as ou wish.
But, Sorry they will not come out today, nor tomorrow... "One of these days"...


NOW!

1. RED has only one camera in the market. RED ONE, and that's it!
   
2. The so desired new camera projects (there's still only RED ONE at the time I'm writing this), that made us stay put and drull while we waited for the marvel (marble) in the business.
   
3. This is all business, both for RED and it's costumers. Time is money indeed! How much money are people going to loose, just because there are schedules to be met, but like Jim says "everything in life changes... including our camera specs and delivery dates...". Jim is absolutely right. I'm seriously considering in changing my decision regarding RED camera projects that are still yet to see daylight. Interstingly as it might be we always have the bills in the end of the month. Unfortunatley, that doesn't change!
   
4. About other brands, why not? Who knows the changing future. Even Yoda said it was dificult to see because it always in motion... Why not one of those or others not mentioned here? If they are that bad, why do pros (like George Lucas) invest in them? Isn't that strange, to say the least? Other brands have decades, some almost a century of know how regarding making devices that give us and our customers wonderful images. Companies that built a reputation all over these years and therefore cannot afford to be wrong, otherwise they will loose their credit, their reputation, customers and their money. Once again, why not? And then again... Why not RED? Why not RED ONE? Why not the hopefuly coming new models everyone is eager to put their money on? Why wait so much to achieve the perfect thing? The development work never ends. Sometimes, we have to send something for people to see, try and make suggestions if applicable. Then you would tune your path into a new generation of products or updates that would be better. That's evolution. This cannot be done all at once. Otherwise rendering obsolence becomes obsolete by itself.

Don't get me wrong. That's just the way of life. Everything changes constantly, all the time, and RED still has only one camera to offer. That doesn't look like much of a change at all to me. But that's just me.

I've attended IBC 09, where I could finnaly put my hands on a RED ONE and feel it and it's looki. The word about RED was consensual. It's a good camera. The problem with RED is that it's never REaDy.

Presently, people start talking about October and the question arises: Will this be finnaly the moment we so much anticipated? Or someone will come with good news and say to "everyone, we just came up with an even better system, so there's no point in launching this one"?

Truly and deeply I hope so. Like I said in the beginning everything has a timing in life. Even changes do have timing. Past that there is no point.

I'm not sure if I will continue to wait for the return of these crusade, odyssey... Like Jim, my decision can change anytime. Maybe it would help if RED gave me a reason to stay on board.

Just in case anyone, including RED considers this a demonstration of "bad attitude" (I see Mr. T playing BA, suddenly) and refuse any kind of service I might request, that's fine. RED is very good, but it's not alone in being good. There is always more than one option in every single situation in life. Always.

I beleave in freedom of speech. I'm just saying what goes in my mind, because I haven't seen this issue really and deeply debated and it's important to do so for everyone's sake, including RED's. This goes far beyond technology breakthrougs. Sometimes the great breakthrough is to take a that "small step for man" but a quantum step to take stand and make a chnage. I'm willing for it to happen! I just hope it happens on time!

Thank you all for your attention.

The ball is on your side.
Now it's up to you.

Best wishes,

Miguel

 

[Nuno Ribeiro]

dear miguel

dear miguel

you seem to forget that this forum is going hand in hand with development, lucky bunch we are! That the ¨never finished¨ is more like ¨constantly improving¨ Red One and kin, and if this new partaking with a company, of the time it takes to develop something isn't in your learning expectations, you can always drop, and learn later from others. it's not mandatory to attend, only if you take pleasure in it. above all, be responsible for your choices, and grateful for what you can choose. cheers

rendering obsolescence obsolete can only happen precisely through this means, partaking. it ain't the shell anymore, it's what goes within.

 

[Frederic joly]

tanks miguel ! you found the words ! i think a could wait a little bit more !!
juste hopping now for the end of the year .. snow comming.. and snowkiting also .. needs to shoots for pleasure !:smiley:

 

[Peter Moretti]

...

I've attended IBC 09, where I could finnaly put my hands on a RED ONE and feel it and it's looki. The word about RED was consensual. It's a good camera. The problem with RED is that it's never REaDy.
...

I know you want Scarlet and it's been delayed multiple times. But you sound like some bride who feels she's been jilted at the alter.

Red has a camera, and it IS "REaDy." Even in its incipient stage, movies like "Che" were filmed with it. And I just watched "District 9." Was that shot on a Sony F35 Red One impostor?

The problem is not that the Red isn't ready, it's that all these Scarlet waiters (me included) aren't ready, willing or able to plop down $18K on a Red One camera body that should actually cost them upwards of $80K.

Red hasn't let you down. It hasn't screwed anyone who's waiting for anything. You don't want to wait for Scarlet? Fine, buy a different camera.

But Red owes none of Scarlet waiters ANYTHING. They more than delivered w/ the Red One. If we can't or won't buy it, that's our problem... not theirs.

 

[Jason Ramsey]

1. RED has only one camera in the market. RED ONE, and that's it!
   
2. The so desired new camera projects (there's still only RED ONE at the time I'm writing this), that made us stay put and drull while we waited for the marvel (marble) in the business.
   
3. This is all business, both for RED and it's costumers. Time is money indeed! How much money are people going to loose, just because there are schedules to be met, but like Jim says "everything in life changes... including our camera specs and delivery dates...". Jim is absolutely right. I'm seriously considering in changing my decision regarding RED camera projects that are still yet to see daylight. Interstingly as it might be we always have the bills in the end of the month. Unfortunatley, that doesn't change!
   
4. About other brands, why not? Who knows the changing future. Even Yoda said it was dificult to see because it always in motion... Why not one of those or others not mentioned here? If they are that bad, why do pros (like George Lucas) invest in them? Isn't that strange, to say the least? Other brands have decades, some almost a century of know how regarding making devices that give us and our customers wonderful images. Companies that built a reputation all over these years and therefore cannot afford to be wrong, otherwise they will loose their credit, their reputation, customers and their money. Once again, why not? And then again... Why not RED? Why not RED ONE? Why not the hopefuly coming new models everyone is eager to put their money on? Why wait so much to achieve the perfect thing? The development work never ends. Sometimes, we have to send something for people to see, try and make suggestions if applicable. Then you would tune your path into a new generation of products or updates that would be better. That's evolution. This cannot be done all at once. Otherwise rendering obsolence becomes obsolete by itself.

Few comments, if I may....

1. RED as a company is only like 3 years old. How many cameras do you think they should have right now? One solid one that they and others can learn from so they are poised to release a whole new line of cameras a mere 2-3 years later perhaps?

2. Why are you staying put and not continuing to move forward? Perhaps making money to fund your next potential purchase... not saying you aren't doing that, but your comment basically is.

3. If it's business... you are right... time is money. One shouldn't be sitting on their hands waiting for the next latest and greatest thing. They should be out using what is available now and running a successful business. Owning a RED camera does not = a successful and profitable business. Likewise, smart business says you should not be making schedules and planning shoots around unreleased products where there are any number of variables that may influence their release. And, you should not be making schedules and planning shoots around an unreleased product that you have never used and don't even know (for sure) if it is going to be the right tool for your job(s). You (like everyone) has bills to pay. So, you should be using what is available now, not sitting on your thumbs waiting for an unreleased product in order to move forward with business.

4. Just b/c a product is constantly evolving and improving does not necessarily mean it is not "ready". I realize it's a bit different than most of us are used to in that we buy a product and that is that until the brand new model comes out to replace it. Though, might I suggest you be encouraged (rather than discouraged by the fact) that you can buy a camera and two years later it has gone from being a 4k camera to a 4.5k camera with higher data rates and a whole host of new features and upgrades all for Free.

There have been several cameras that have come out over the last several years with firmware upgrade possibilities but none of them really took advantage of that and used it to improve the cameras. Just simple fixes and updates. Meanwhile, with RED the camera has gone through so many builds that add features, improve picture quality, etc, etc.

AND, all of those improvements and discoveries and free upgrades along the way go into Scarlet and Epic at the beginning. And, then we (hopefully) get to see it happen all over again. With more new builds and so on that continually improve the quality of the product that we purchased at no additional charge to us.

Your point was perhaps more relevant in the early release of RED, but those early serial number folks also knew what they were buying into for the most part when it came to that. But, now... It's a more than ready camera that is still being improved upon... even on the eve of a whole new line of DSMC's coming out... It went from being a 4k to a 4.5k cam with REDCODE 42 recently and here we are perhaps months away from the release of the 2nd gen cams. Can't say I've seen that happen before.

Not to say it's all hunky dory or anything... It is what it is, and RED definitely does business in a different way than most... for better or for worse. Either it grooves with you or it doesn't. For me (when I look at it all on the whole) it is really quite refreshing... Makes patience a bit difficult at times, sure... but so does my youngest daughter screaming at the top of her lungs all day long

later,
jason

 

[Tom Kurowski]

I know you want Scarlet and it's been delayed multiple times. But you sound like some bride who feels she's been jilted at the alter.

Red has a camera, and it IS "REaDy." Even in its incipient stage, movies like "Che" were filmed with it. And I just watched "District 9." Was that shot on a Sony F35 Red One impostor?

The problem is not that the Red isn't ready, it's that all these Scarlet waiters (me included) aren't ready, willing or able to plop down $18K on a Red One camera body that should actually cost them upwards of $80K.

Red hasn't let you down. It hasn't screwed anyone who's waiting for anything. You don't want to wait for Scarlet? Fine, buy a different camera.

But Red owes none of Scarlet waiters ANYTHING. They more than delivered w/ the Red One. If we can't or won't buy it, that's our problem... not theirs.

For my first post all I can say is, "well said"
tom

 

[Tom Kurowski]

I know you want Scarlet and it's been delayed multiple times. But you sound like some bride who feels she's been jilted at the alter.

Red has a camera, and it IS "REaDy." Even in its incipient stage, movies like "Che" were filmed with it. And I just watched "District 9." Was that shot on a Sony F35 Red One impostor?

The problem is not that the Red isn't ready, it's that all these Scarlet waiters (me included) aren't ready, willing or able to plop down $18K on a Red One camera body that should actually cost them upwards of $80K.

Red hasn't let you down. It hasn't screwed anyone who's waiting for anything. You don't want to wait for Scarlet? Fine, buy a different camera.

But Red owes none of Scarlet waiters ANYTHING. They more than delivered w/ the Red One. If we can't or won't buy it, that's our problem... not theirs.

Considering this is my first post all i have to say is "well said"!
As for me I have the scratch (hope the government didn't here that) but I'm in no hurry to part with it unless I get what I want. I am working as much as I can and would love to get a RedOne but I can still wait for the Scarlet/Epic and work with what I have. And as for Red, they owe me nothing since I am not even onboard yet!
tom

 

[Larry McKee]

Tom, welcome to the forum.

 

[Charles X]

Did I read somewhere something about a mid october announcement from red? looking forward to getting some news on scarlet!

 

[Larry McKee]

October 30.

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=36238

 

[Chris Dotson]

Thanks for the update! We have cash in hand for at least one if not two of these cameras.

 

[Ian B. Johnson]

October 30.

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=36238

Just to clarify- this is not the release date. This is the date that Red will announce the release schedule, which could end up being be quite a ways off. Just don't want anyone getting too excited.

 

[Chris Dotson]

Just to clarify- this is not the release date. This is the date that Red will announce the release schedule, which could end up being be quite a ways off. Just don't want anyone getting too excited.

Of course. I just hope it's sooner rather than later. I would have happily beta tested this camera and updated firmware daily if need be! Still, my hope is they will release the camera soon. I need something to shoot with, and this would be ideal!

 

[Lawrence Bansbach]

There have been several cameras that have come out over the last several years with firmware upgrade possibilities but none of them really took advantage of that and used it to improve the cameras. Just simple fixes and updates. Meanwhile, with RED the camera has gone through so many builds that add features, improve picture quality, etc, etc.

AND, all of those improvements and discoveries and free upgrades along the way go into Scarlet and Epic at the beginning. And, then we (hopefully) get to see it happen all over again. With more new builds and so on that continually improve the quality of the product that we purchased at no additional charge to us.

I hope I am mistaken, but I thought I had read that because Scarlet and Epic use ASICs rather than FPGAs like the Red One, they won't be as upgradeable as the Red One. If so, that might partly explain why Red considers it imperative that the new cameras are finished and bug-free before they are released.

 

[Chuck Z]

I believe Jim said the newer cameras would use a combination of FPGAs and ASICs (or at least not preclude the existence of the former).

 

[Peter Mosiman]

I believe Jim said the newer cameras would use a combination of FPGAs and ASICs (or at least not preclude the existence of the former).

Nope, straight ASIC's.

 

[David Rasberry]

ASICs are the end result of the FPGA hardware development process. They will still be software/firmware upgradeable just like any computer, much faster,cooler and more power efficient too.

FPGA's allow you to change the hardware circuit design on the chip via special programming software. Until they are programmed there is no circuit. Once the circuitry is optimised for its purpose, there is no reason to put up with the shortcomings of the FPGA's unless you only need very small quantities than don't justify making ASICs.

 

[Lawrence Bansbach]

ASICs are the end result of the FPGA hardware development process. They will still be software/firmware upgradeable just like any computer, much faster,cooler and more power efficient too.

FPGA's allow you to change the hardware circuit design on the chip via special programming software. Until they are programmed there is no circuit. Once the circuitry is optimised for its purpose, there is no reason to put up with the shortcomings of the FPGA's unless you only need very small quantities than don't justify making ASICs.

But will it be possible to add new features to Scarlet and Epic to the same degree as has been done with Red One? Or is more "baked in" feature set the trade-off for cooler, more stable operation and a much cheaper price?

 

[David Rasberry]

But will it be possible to add new features to Scarlet and Epic to the same degree as has been done with Red One? Or is more "baked in" feature set the trade-off for cooler, more stable operation and a much cheaper price?

How easy is it to add new features to your home PC? (I.E. new programs). Your CPU and chipsets are essentially ASICS.

It really depends on the design of the ASIC and its supporting circuitry. Look at what firmware upgrades have done for Canon's 5DII feature set so far, both factory and hackerware. It is ASIC based. The only limits are the available processing power and inherent sensor limitations.