Redspace footage looks great in the EVF/Monitor out but dark in RedAlert and QT!?

[Brian Broz]

Hoping someone can help me out...
Hi I just shot a number of low light clips with tungsten light exposing in Redspace at 320ISO. The footage looks fantastic playing back from camera to 720P output (plasma tv) and the EVF/LCD look great as well.
When I view the clips in RedAlert (Macbook Pro Gamma 2.2) using the REDSpace presets and no other corrections (simply metadata) the footage looks really dark and pretty muddy.
The easiest explanation for a look match would be switching the ISO from 320 to 500 in RA to approximate how different the image looks between viewing in RA and via HDMI out to plasma/EVF (which are quite close). I realize the camera is outputting a QT reference file but why that looks better than rendering and debayering (at 1/2) is beyond me.
I'm thinking I'm missing something obvious. This hasn't been an issue with most brighter footage I've shot before, but is very noticeable with this tungsten low-light footage.
Any tips or suggestions would be really appreciated!

 

[Joel Kaye]

I get the same thing.

 

[Brian Broz]

So I'm not crazy...whew.
It seems the more I use the camera the more questions I have :waaa:

Edit: will post screenshot this evening.

 

[Deanan]

Can you post a screenshot?

 

[Daniel García]

Are B16 quicktime refs still broken? (meaning overly dark)

I think it's a big issue, because it breaks the fastest workflow (qt refs to fcp) and forces you to transcode before editing.

 

[Brian Broz]

DaNni this is not a QT reference file issue.
I was trying to describe the issue as best I could...but the RAW footage converted using Redspace (with no other adjustments than metadata) appear much darker than the image viewed in Redspace on the EVF/LCD and HDMI out.

 

[Harry Capota]

Hoping someone can help me out...
Hi I just shot a number of low light clips with tungsten light exposing in Redspace at 320ISO. The footage looks fantastic playing back from camera to 720P output (plasma tv) and the EVF/LCD look great as well.
When I view the clips in RedAlert (Macbook Pro Gamma 2.2) using the REDSpace presets and no other corrections (simply metadata) the footage looks really dark and pretty muddy.

Any tips or suggestions would be really appreciated!

Hi Brian,
just one thing: You are using both Matrix and Gamma Redspace in Red ALert?

 

[Brian Broz]

Yes both Matrix and Gamma are Redspace. Forgive the approximation below but if you are viewing on a Mac at 2.2 gamma you will get an idea of how much darker the image is than I think it should be.

Picture 1 (top) is how dark the image looks with Metadata (Redspace colorspace and gamma) viewing at 2.2 Gamma on my mac laptop. Too dark and not consistent with what I'm seeing on location.
Picture 2 (middle) is a look I approximate to what the LCD/EVF and HDMI out viewing in Redspace. Admittedly a non-scientific approximation but close.
Picture 3 (last) is a little bit closer in terms of color saturation to what I'm seeing in LCD/EVF and HDMI out viewing in Redspace. Admittedly a non-scientific approximation but close.
When I view the image in Redalert it really looks more accurate to the image I thought I'm getting when viewing at 1.8 Gamma...not 2.2 Gamma which Red recommends?!

 

[B Newberry]

I'm having this too-- Build 16. Sorry for bad LCD grab, but you can still see what is happening. the evf/lcd look much brighter than the quicktimes and defaults in red alert, and the histogram fills the box in the viewfinder. just wondering if this is normal? don't recall them being this dark on other builds.

 

[Deanan]

Is the redalert shot showing the metadata? (click metadata button)

Can you use redline and printMeta output the metadata in the file? If not, you can use the export CSV from REDrushes.

Also, can you do a reset to defaults on the camera?

 

[B Newberry]

Is the redalert shot showing the metadata? (click metadata button)

Can you use redline and printMeta output the metadata in the file? If not, you can use the export CSV from REDrushes.

Also, can you do a reset to defaults on the camera?

Yes-- showing redalert metadata.

Not sure how to do redline/ printMeta, but I sent you the CSV from REDrushes.

Yes-- will do a reset to defaults on the camera

 

[Brian Broz]

Hi Deanan,
The Redalert shot I posted is definitely showing metadata. This is the first thing I checked.
I've honestly never used Redline and it sounds like I should learn
I have emailed you the exported CSV from Redrushes....thanks.
By reset to defaults on camera I assume you mean setup>maintenance>restore?

 

[Deanan]

I'm not seeing the RA shot you posted.
Can you email it to me?

 

[Ernesto Lomeli]

I'm having the exact same issues and have had to male rsx files for every scene.

It's a horrible work around but I figured it was the price to pay for using REDSPACE as a color space.

I hope I'm worng and will be able to recreate QT with the same looks we had on set.

I know I can fix this in redcine but it is horribly inconvenient .

 

[Deanan]

The QT component supports the full camer look except for the curve right now. Curve suport is coming soon.

 

[Deanan]

I'm having this too-- Build 16. Sorry for bad LCD grab, but you can still see what is happening. the evf/lcd look much brighter than the quicktimes and defaults in red alert, and the histogram fills the box in the viewfinder. just wondering if this is normal? don't recall them being this dark on other builds.

One thing related that could be causing the difference is that the camera's current settings are used for playback.

 

[Brian Broz]

I realize current camera settings affect playback...it's a good point that changes need to be made on the fly playing back in camera.
But I assure you this is not the issue in this case. Camera is set to Redspace view, tungsten preset IS0 3200....

 

[Kjetil Haugen]

I'm having this too-- Build 16. Sorry for bad LCD grab, but you can still see what is happening. the evf/lcd look much brighter than the quicktimes and defaults in red alert, and the histogram fills the box in the viewfinder. just wondering if this is normal? don't recall them being this dark on other builds.

Is this build 16? Where's the grayscale bar on the right in the LCD? And the filenames are all numbers. The last two should be letters now, right?... Not suggesting you don't know what build you're on, but thought that was strange.

Just a reminder. I always make sure that "dark detail" in the viewfinder option is turned off. When looking throught the evf, the three top whites in the grayscale blend so I guess it's brightening the image. This is on by default, why I dont know.

 

[Deanan]

Sorry Brian, there are two different issues in this thread. I was specifically responding to Newberry.

After looking at your images, it looks to me like the usual quicktime gamma problem combined with differences in display characteristics/setup. The lcd and evf can be run very brightly.

 

[B Newberry]

Is this build 16? Where's the grayscale bar on the right in the LCD? And the filenames are all numbers. The last two should be letters now, right?... Not suggesting you don't know what build you're on, but thought that was strange.

Build 16_3.2.5. i believe the last 2 digits can be letters, numbers, or combo-- at least thats what #300 is doing. i dont think dark detail was checked. I reset my camera to defaults-- but haven't had time to retest.