RED's home 4k Projector under 10k, Sony's home 4k Projector over 20k!!

[Patrick Grossien]

I thought Laser projectors didn't require a conventional lens as the image is sharp at any distance so it must be a laser illuminated chip.
Do you really need a lens with an iris? and would you really want to push all that coating eating light through your shooting lens
so loosing the RED Lens $7000 and the RED mount $2000 that should make the projector itself a snip at $1000
at that price I'd like to be 1st in line or am I missing something?

I guess you're missing the point that the projector will probably be sold sans lens nobody said anything about that yet so we will just have to wait. It could be though that you get the projector with the mount. But it could also be that the starting point will be with a aluminum mount which should be more than sufficient for a projector anyway.

 

[Shapour Daneshmand]

Felix,
that is the real argument here.
me personally prefer RED to sony in a heart beat.
RED has proven its superiority of innovation, quality and service in so many levels for few years now.
If RED makes it, I will not look further. The bucks stops right there for me.

 

[Felix van Oost]

I guess you're missing the point that the projector will probably be sold sans lens nobody said anything about that yet so we will just have to wait. It could be though that you get the projector with the mount. But it could also be that the starting point will be with a aluminum mount which should be more than sufficient for a projector anyway.

Peter, I think the $10K price point will most definitely be excluding a lens and possibly excluding a mount (that's what RED does at present with the Epic / Scarlet, so it's not a stretch to assume that the same will happen with the projector).

 

[Felix van Oost]

Felix,
that is the real argument here.
me personally prefer RED to sony in a heart beat.
RED has proven its superiority of innovation, quality and service in so many levels for few years now.
If RED makes it, I will not look further. The bucks stops right there for me.

That's exactly what I'm getting at here. Instead of critically comparing products to see which is the best, you yourself said you'll buy the RED product without considering anything else. Isn't that what fanboyism is? I'm not debating the level of innovation, quality or service that RED has delivered, but the fact that you wouldn't consider other options sort of eliminates any other company from doing better than RED in the future, since you'd never try it out.

 

[Will Keir]

Dude i want to hear about your street fighting days in Singapore!

No offense taken of course, and the reason I am saying that RED is a superior product, is because I have carefully analyzed each, and what one offers vs. the other, not even talking in consideration the IMAGE QUALITY factor, which I of course like to believe that the RED Laser system of projection will be also far superior in quality then the Sony, especially so been that it is a GRADING projector, but again, considering alone what REDRAY Projector offers vs. what SONY Projectors offers, makes the RED one a far superior product.

SONY's, just a projector, RED's its also a RED RAY, and its Laser, and it has a interchangeable Lens Mount and Lenses, but there is more, and we don't know all of it yet, till RED has it out for delivery.



Singapore, wow that sure brings back memories, last time I was there? He he, I was a young and restless BOY, becoming an adult in all the wrong ways, it was the year before I moved to the US, in the summer of 1988, when I was a Street Fighter, those that did it for money unfortunately, but there is much to this story that needs to remain untold, but there is a Movie in the works about this, filmed in Italy, China and of course Singapore.

 

[Shapour Daneshmand]

That's exactly what I'm getting at here. Instead of critically comparing products to see which is the best, you yourself said you'll buy the RED product without considering anything else. Isn't that what fanboyism is? I'm not debating the level of innovation, quality or service that RED has delivered, but the fact that you wouldn't consider other options sort of eliminates any other company from doing better than RED in the future, since you'd never try it out.

Guilty as sin!

 

[Eric Z]

There's one point that I think a lot of you guys missed.
There are going to be 2 versions of the RED projector.

The <$10,000 RED Projector is only for home theater, and will be good for up to 15' screens.
The yet un-announced RED Projector for larger screens is going to cost a lot more.

And as many here have pointed out - the RED Projector is probably going to shipped "naked", no lens and maybe not even a lens mount.
Those are very expensive extras, which would put the price at least 5K higher.

On the plus side, if the lasers will hold for at least 25,000 hours - it could save a lot of money on lamp replacements.
Most projectors only have a lamp life of roughly 3000 hours.

 

[Patrick Grossien]

As the RED mounts are being used, why should you HAVE to use a PL lens and mount for home theater? The lens doesn't need to be moved once set up, so wouldn't an AL Canon Mount + lens be just as efficient? if you take a superb canon mount lens it would sum up to around 2K max including the mount.

As Eric said, the sub 10K projector is announced for use with 15' screens. So to me this sounds as close to "ready to use" as it can be. It could very well already include an AL mount of some sort so all you would need is a lens. One could even get the Canon 50mm f1.8 plastic lens to make it work (if it doesn't melt hehehe) - not saying that makes a lot of sense on a 10K projector - but it would certainly keep it at a low price But all these are just assumptions so why not wait what it will be in the end. Everything is subject to change anyway.

Eric, there is only one RED projector which has been announced, because it's a modular system again. You just add "laser boxes" to get it up in brightness or size. But in the end we still don't know what a single "laser box" will cost, nor how many can be added, so we still can't know how much the fully equipped one will end up costing.

 

[Filip Orlandic]

Does RED's price include laser beam and lens?

 

[Keith Walters]

Peter, I think the $10K price point will most definitely be excluding a lens and possibly excluding a mount (that's what RED does at present with the Epic / Scarlet, so it's not a stretch to assume that the same will happen with the projector).

That's unlikely. One of the major advantages of laser projectors is that the light beams from the light modulators are tightly collimated, so that most of the light goes straight into the rear element of the lens.
With a conventional light source, the rear element has to be as large as possible, and most of the light still winds up getting absorbed by the housing.
For 3D work, the lasers canalso be electronically polarized, which means you don't throw away half the photons.
The result is that you can use a much smaller (and cheaper) lens assembly.
There used be a comparison photo on Kodak's web site, but I can't find it now. It's quite dramatic.
In short, replacing the Xenon light source with a bank of red, green and blue lasers has a number of tremendous advantages.
The issue has always been making them cheap and reliable enough.
At the moment it's a bit like the case of LCD displays; originally they were very expensive and quite unreliable.
Now you can get quite huge-screeen displays for a small fraction of what they used to cost.
4K will only be of real benefit with wall-size displays, and for that you will need projectors for most consumers.

 

[Elsie N]

That's exactly what I'm getting at here. Instead of critically comparing products to see which is the best, you yourself said you'll buy the RED product without considering anything else. Isn't that what fanboyism is? I'm not debating the level of innovation, quality or service that RED has delivered, but the fact that you wouldn't consider other options sort of eliminates any other company from doing better than RED in the future, since you'd never try it out.

I think RED would welcome comparisons with other brands... but (as I've referred to it before) Stockholm Syndrome by Arri, Sony, Canon, etc. etc. customers keeps that from happening on a regular basis. So, some here are developing RED Stockholm Syndrome. Isn't that fair? I think it is much more rampant with these other companies so why not go to their forums and chastise their customers? I'm sure they would allow that on their forums.

 

[Will Keir]

3000 hours is a lot. Takes quite a bit of mindless TV watching to get there. Plus, a lamp is around $500. I use my projector like a fine wine or chocolate.

$15k still is a pretty price tag for your home theater, but it's for color grading too which will justify the expense for me eventually.

Did they come out with a resolution for the project yet? Or a list of features?

There's one point that I think a lot of you guys missed.
There are going to be 2 versions of the RED projector.

The <$10,000 RED Projector is only for home theater, and will be good for up to 15' screens.
The yet un-announced RED Projector for larger screens is going to cost a lot more.

And as many here have pointed out - the RED Projector is probably going to shipped "naked", no lens and maybe not even a lens mount.
Those are very expensive extras, which would put the price at least 5K higher.

On the plus side, if the lasers will hold for at least 25,000 hours - it could save a lot of money on lamp replacements.
Most projectors only have a lamp life of roughly 3000 hours.

 

[Jon Jones]

I will be purchasing a RED projector for sure... To say that the RED projector is superior we don't know yet, but the RED Digital Cinema company IS superior, and there is no doubt there! I am so glad that there is a company that is challenging the status quo. If RED wasn't here, a fully operational 4k camera would be $100k, and a 4k projector would still be $150k+! God bless capitalism. Red Digital Cinema is capitalism at it's finest!!

 

[Troy Bakewell]

God bless capitalism. Red Digital Cinema is capitalism at it's finest!!

Amen Jon!

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

As noted there are more aspects to consider than the projector engine itself. I also doubt that a PL mount "taking" lens will be the solution in the shipping product.

If the Sony ES1000 had a viable upgrade path to wider bandwidth input and higher refresh rates then I, and many others I'd wager, could justify the purchase. With a built in "spoilage" date, it just doesn't make sense.

Cheers - #19

 

[Les Dittert]

It's not a laser beam raster projector. It's a laser light source projector with spacial modulation .
big difference . Beam stays in box. Beam outside box illegal for non pico projectors due to eye safety laws

That's unlikely. One of the major advantages of laser projectors is that the light beams from the light modulators are tightly collimated, so that most of the light goes straight into the rear element of the lens.
With a conventional light source, the rear element has to be as large as possible, and most of the light still winds up getting absorbed by the housing.
For 3D work, the lasers canalso be electronically polarized, which means you don't throw away half the photons.
The result is that you can use a much smaller (and cheaper) lens assembly.
There used be a comparison photo on Kodak's web site, but I can't find it now. It's quite dramatic.
In short, replacing the Xenon light source with a bank of red, green and blue lasers has a number of tremendous advantages.
The issue has always been making them cheap and reliable enough.
At the moment it's a bit like the case of LCD displays; originally they were very expensive and quite unreliable.
Now you can get quite huge-screeen displays for a small fraction of what they used to cost.
4K will only be of real benefit with wall-size displays, and for that you will need projectors for most consumers.

 

[Keith Walters]

It's not a laser beam raster projector. It's a laser light source projector with spacial modulation .
(

That's what I said. The lasers replace the Xenon light source; otherwise it works pretty much the same as a conventional DLP or LCD projector.
It's nothing like the earlier concept of a laser projector using a spinning mirror.
Apart from the tightly collimated beam, there is no need for a dichroic beamsplitter between the lamp and the modulators, plus all the radiant energy is a single wavelength, (no IR or UV).

Edit: I knew I'd posted about this somewhere here before: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...SOLUTELY-WRONG&p=816141&viewfull=1#post816141 (Post 158)

 

[Emanuel A.]

LOL Keith. To see you here in the middle of a myriad of fanboys posts in the same page and figure the number of rolleyes in your mind... is priceless! : D

Be welcome anyways -- when you distill your knowledge (or only good humor) instead ;-)

 

[Keith Walters]

LOL Keith. To see you here in the middle of a myriad of fanboys posts in the same page and figure the number of rolleyes in your mind... is priceless! : D

Be welcome anyways -- when you distill your knowledge (or only good humor) instead ;-)

I only do it for tax reasons :spam:

 

[Aaron Fritz]

The Sony 4k has its limitations do to the HDMI 1.4a specs. Once the new 4k specs are announced with the blu-ray 4k, The Sony 4k will be upgradable. Also I suspect since the Red announcement that Sony will announce a 10k 4k projector at Cedia this year.