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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

REDray Projector..

found this from jarred:

Jarred Land said:
You only need a silver screen for front projected 3D... If you only plan on using our Laser projector for 2D.. a white screen is fine.

And remember.. since we are shooting 24 foot lamberts you don't need it to be high gain. A higher gain screen improves the effects of polarization but also gets into all sorts of other issues like hotspots etc.

You guys that saw it yesterday should come see it again today.. we made some substantial improvements late in the wee hours today :)
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isn't that the main issues with polarization?
 
The silver screen I saw today at Red's demo booth had no hot spot, and didn't even look like a silver screen, for that matter. I was more concerned by the raised blacks and my right eye was greener than the left, but this color shift may have been the glasses quality. I'm guessing that it's using lcos to modulate, with laser as a light source only.
it's all prelim, so no worries.
The presentation was 2k simultaneous to each eye, they said they may have 4k in the next day.
It was very watchable, I must add.
 
The best 3D I've ever seen was at CES this year, on LG's OLED flat screen. Similar to the Red projector, it uses polarization and shows simultaneous left eye/right eye images. It was spectacular, even though the horizontal resolution is halved to each eye for 3D, which wouldn't be the case with the Red.

So, I'm a big, big fan of simultaneous left/right 3D. Something like the Dolby/Panavision stuff that has been discussed just above has the potential to be just amazing, and I wish that it was the solution out of the gate for this machine, but it's not. I'm not saying that Red made the wrong decision here -- just saying that the solution they have used really won't work for me at this time.

Unfortunately, since I just bought a (fully custom) screen that's worth about the cost of this projector, I will not be replacing it anytime soon. I realize that the polarization is only an issue for 3D, and it's true that 3D is not a major focus for me. I own a total of 4 3D Blu-ray discs, in fact, with plans to buy a fifth. But, it'd sure be nice to be able to watch those in 3D if I feel like it.

Another option, of course, is to simply buy an inexpensive DLP that does great active 3D and unremarkable 2D. I would use this second projector only for 3D, leaving the Red to handle 2D on my regular screen. This solution would cost substantially less than adding/replacing a screen like mine, and it's a solution that a number of home theater owners have used, because the category-leading 2D projectors in the $10k and under category (JVC, Sony) have until this year had stellar 2D and less-than-stellar 3D. (This year, a couple of the sub-$10k projectors are pretty darned good at both...)

However, it seems to me that one of the big kick-ass features of the Red projector is the simultaneous, 120Hz 3D. In the absence of widespread 4K content, I don't think you're gaining a lot from the 4K resolution, so the awesome 3D is one of the big features, and without it, the case for the Red becomes less compelling.

There's still a lot of appeal. I would expect the Red to have extremely rich, saturated color (which typical Blu-ray content can't take full advantage of, but perhaps RedRay will), hopefully instant-on and care-free operation like LED-based projectors have, and which conventional UHP-lamped projectors emphatically lack. It also has the potential to be very quiet.

So, it will still be extremely interesting to see how this machine performs when it ships, but I will not be waiting for it. The first projector going into my new theater will be something else. :(
 
Jonathan McGuire said:
Dolby and Panavision use spectral filters in their 3D projection, the filters are developed by Infitec and Omega. "The filters transmit narrows bands of red, green, and blue for the left eye, and slightly different bands of red, green, and blue for the right eye. A discerning eye might notice a very slight difference in color between the two images, but the brain doesn't care, easily integrating the two into natural color." That quote came from an article that I will link to if you wish to read more. The great thing about spectral 3D is that it doesn't require a silver screen and eliminates ghosting (or is at least that best solution for dealing with it). The downside is that the glasses are reflecting the image that is not meant to be seen by each eye, and if you have ambient light in your theater you may notice the reflections on the lens, you can see what I mean in the picture below. Lasers may make it hard to use these filters since they usually operate on a single line of spectrum, but the designer of the Omega filters has stated on avsforum that it can be done. Don't get me wrong though, I love what RED is doing and simultaneous L/R 3D is more important to me that the fact they are using polarization. If they have a screen in the works than can eliminate ghosting and still look good in 2D then I will be ecstatic. I even have a pair of oakley 3D glasses left from when I used polarization with a dual projection polarized setup.

http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/14/stereo2.htm
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cool, thanks for the detailed explanation :)
 
I've been tooling around with a RealD-ish modulation filter which basically converts an active 3D projector into a passive one. Unlike RealD's modulators, this one is aimed at and priced for consumers, and works with any active 3D projector which has a VESA-3D connector for external sync. I've tested it with a couple of Optoma projectors on a Harkness Spectral 240 3D silver screen, and the results look very good. Sure there's crosstalk, but no more than on my JVC X70 active 3D projector.

While RED's projector is 4K and has those friggin' lasers, I'm also very keen to see what its simultaneous L/R looks like. RealD and this consumer version are both non-simultaneous, after all.
 
For anybody who has already attended today, have they mentioned if the projector is now running at 4K?

-sc
 
I'm very interested as to wether this will suit an IMAG situation for live shows, what kind of gear I would need to project graphic content direct from a computer, and most importantly, cost of ownership. Lamp life, display engine life, replacement costs etc.
 
Jarred Land said:
yup.. same thing i said. I said yesterday yesterday..
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I just got back home tonight so seeing it again is not possible. That said, what I saw yesterday morning was, without question, the best 3D presentation I have ever seen, bar none. Zero heachach/eye strain. It just looked sharp and awesome. And when the few artifacts that remain are removed + 4K...wow.
 
I saw the projection demo at some point within the past few days, although the whole show has been a blur. (a lot of fun!)

I still dont know where I come down on it, because its very difficult for me to walk into a dark room without any reference, see an image, and evaluate it. However, I would say as a new technology demo it went exceedingly well. The whole movie showed without any hiccups, (that alone, for an alpha/beta demo was impressive) and for whatever reason, even without a direct reference, I got the impression that for 3D projection, it was quite bright, which was really pleasing. The colors also felt very vivid, and I already didn't really mind looking at a 2K 8bit image.

That being said, I've been particularly skeptical / gun shy as of late as far as lasers are concerned. I had a bit of a run in with a Wicked Lasers Spyder Arctic 3 recently and after a few days of freaking out about viewing that lasers output without protective gear, I was ok, but definitely have a new respect for the power of lasers... I know that obviously the product / technology is safe or else RED wouldn't be investing in it... But I guess just for personal knowledge, I dont understand the technology enough to know why it is safe, and that would probably allay my fears / misgivings in this regard.

Aside from that, I did experience a weird disconnect. I couldn't be sure that the 3D effect was working for me, unfortunately. I found myself constantly raising my glasses a bit so I could see the screen without them on, just to see that it wasn't a 2D image. I dont normally have any problem in 3D movies, so I dont know if this was a matter of not having any eye strain (and so I was just viewing 3D effortlessly, and so couldn't feel the normal strain of 3D, or if my brain was acting up, or if there was something else going on.) However, then the shot where he looks into the microscope popped up, and the 3D effect was startling, (in a good way) and the vividness and brightness of the color was evident, and really astounding.

Im really interested to learn more about the actual core functionality and safety of the technology since it certainly sounds like a solid advancement from all that I've been hearing, and I would highly recommend seeing the demo. Lots of impressive stuff, it certainly was one of the most unique technologies i've had the pleasure to see so far at the show, and it had, from what I could tell, a demo free of technical malfunctions, which is really amazing in and of itself for a tech demo!!

Overall, Really cool work I'm excited to see more, and would love any resources that anyone could recommend for learning about approaches and regulations for this kind of stuff!
 
Jarred - will the (very subtle) "rainbow effect" disappear on the production model too? Will definitely be in thursday morning to see 'Loom' again on the updated projector.
 
Tony Lorentzen said:
Jarred - will the (very subtle) "rainbow effect" disappear on the production model too? Will definitely be in thursday morning to see 'Loom' again on the updated projector.
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yup its all alignment of polarization.. and ironically the easy stuff to fix if we had just a few more days. Nothing to see new tomorrow..
 
Jarred Land said:
yup its all alignment of polarization.. and ironically the easy stuff to fix if we had just a few more days. Nothing to see new tomorrow..
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Gotcha - I expected that to be an alignment issue. The presentation I saw was 2K 8bit with a bit of "ghosting" - are you saying that it's still not 4K, 12-bit?
 
no 4K, 12 bit yet... the team is still awake.. but with thursday being a half day even if it fired up in the next couple hours.. there wouldn't be time to put it in the booth and realign everything before the show ended.
 
I understand. I'm just totally psyched to see this thing all working. What I saw the other day was just plain amazing. Can't believe this baby can be mine for less than $10K. You guys rock.
 
Tony Lorentzen said:
I understand. I'm just totally psyched to see this thing all working. What I saw the other day was just plain amazing. Can't believe this baby can be mine for less than $10K. You guys rock.
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Don't worry.. there will be plenty of opportunities popping up soon for you to see the projector in all it's glory soon :)
 
Jarred Land said:
no 4K, 12 bit yet... the team is still awake.. but with thursday being a half day even if it fired up in the next couple hours.. there wouldn't be time to put it in the booth and realign everything before the show ended.
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OH, that is really too bad!!

I have been waiting to see LOOM cause I really wanted to see in all its 4k glory... ;)

I guess I'll see it either on my next trip to RED STUDIOS HOLLYWOOD or if you guys start your Global tour first and come in one of the countries I'll gladly assist you set up the event on... ;)


I'm also sorry for your guys that didn't happen, I know you must be really bombed out.
 
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