RedCineX CONTROLS ???

[George D.]

We just got our new Red-One and I'm learning it and RedCineX.

I have a couple of questions I'd like help with:

1 - Why do the clips I put up in RedCineX look low in contrast, but when I put the same clip in Adobe Premeire Pro CS5 it looks fine with lots of color, contrast, and depth ?

2 - I cannot see how to alter the WB in RedCineX. All I see are Lift, Gamma, and Gain controls. How do I access the other features like WB, contrast, color, etc.?

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks.

.

 

[David Ibbitson]

Hi George,

1. PP most likely decodes frames with different settings initially than RCX. In RCX, all the decode properties can be found on the Look Control panel.

2. On the Clip Settings panel under Look Settings you can find the White Balance picker right above the Kelvin and Tint sliders.

David

 

[George D.]

Hi George,

1. PP most likely decodes frames with different settings initially than RCX. In RCX, all the decode properties can be found on the Look Control panel.

2. On the Clip Settings panel under Look Settings you can find the White Balance picker right above the Kelvin and Tint sliders.

David

Please be aware, I'm on a PC, not a Mac.

I know I'm missing something, and it's right in front of me, but I see no "Look Control Panel". All there are, are File, Edit, View, Audio, Window, & Help. And, it's in none of those.

Also, I see no "Clip Settings" or "Look Settings". Sorry!!

.

 

[David Ibbitson]

Hi George,

No problem, go to the Window menu and make sure the Clip Settings window is checked. It should be visible on the right hand
side of your screen. It could also be collapsed, in which case you can click the arrow and expand the tool.

Another thing to try is to reset the window layout. You can also do this from the Window menu.

Let me know how this goes.

Cheers,
David

 

[George D.]

Hi George,

No problem, go to the Window menu and make sure the Clip Settings window is checked. It should be visible on the right hand
side of your screen. It could also be collapsed, in which case you can click the arrow and expand the tool.

Another thing to try is to reset the window layout. You can also do this from the Window menu.

Let me know how this goes.

Cheers,
David

Thanks David.

Yes, I found the little devil hidden there in the Window menu.....

That's what I needed alright. Perfect control.

Wow, what a beautiful program. To be able to do ALL those adjustments without deteriorating the image is amazing, just amazing.

If I remember right, Red says that the footage right out of the camera is usually rather flat, on purpose. Is there a way to make it not so in the camera menu?

Thanks.

.

 

[George D.]

BTW, once I've done the alterations, etc, on a specified clip and saved it, how do I then put it into the Adobe Premiere CS5 editing program so I can add it to the final program?

I ask this, because after I did the alterations, the CS5 program did not "see" the saved clip. Obviously, I'm missing something AGAIN, but how can I make the finished clip useable again in CS5?

Thanks.

.

 

[David Ibbitson]

Hi George,

When grading in RCX, RCX will save off a .RMD file along side your .R3D. This will happen automatically if you have "Automatically save RMD files" checked in the preferences, otherwise
you can right click on a clip in a bin and chose the menu option yourself. The .RMD contains the clip look metadata in an XML format.

To bring it into PP, for example, I believe on a clips "Source Settings" dialog you can click "Reload from RMD" and PP will pick it up. In 5.5 I think there is a more efficient way. You should check the Adobe Workflow forum I'm pretty sure there are a few examples in there.

David

 

[George D.]

Hi George,

When grading in RCX, RCX will save off a .RMD file along side your .R3D. This will happen automatically if you have "Automatically save RMD files" checked in the preferences, otherwise
you can right click on a clip in a bin and chose the menu option yourself. The .RMD contains the clip look metadata in an XML format.

To bring it into PP, for example, I believe on a clips "Source Settings" dialog you can click "Reload from RMD" and PP will pick it up. In 5.5 I think there is a more efficient way. You should check the Adobe Workflow forum I'm pretty sure there are a few examples in there.

David

I did as you suggested, and it saved a .RMD file. I set it to happen automatically.

But, when I went to bring the clip into the PP CS5 program, it did not "see" the RMD file. Rather strange ??? Since it did not see the file, I could not very well get into the "Source Settings" of CS5.

What does RMD stand for anyway?

Why can't I save the altered file from RCX as a R3D file? That would seem to make a lot more sense and easier to deal with, to me.

*BTW, if I alter a RAW clip in CS5 in the Source Settings, will it deteriorate the footage, or is it the same as doing those settings in RedCineX? In other words, it would be a lot easier to do minor alterations on the clips while in CS5, at the time of editing, than having to go through RedCineX before hand.

Thanks.

.

 

[David Ibbitson]

Hi George,

The Source Settings can be accessed by right clicking on an .R3D clip in a bin I believe.

RMD just stands for Red Metadata. It can contain a look, framing, a link to a right eye when doing 3D, etc ...

You can save .R3D's from RCX. This is called a Trim export. However, you can't rewrite metadata. Infact, you can never modify the original source file. When you do a trim
in RCX, a new .RMD will be placed alongside the new .R3D containing the current look, framing, etc ...

There are quite a few reasons for the existence of RMD, philosophical and practical

CS5 will never alter the original source file either. I'd browse the Adobe Workflow forum for more exact details on a workflow suitable to your needs.

David

 

[George D.]

Hi George,

The Source Settings can be accessed by right clicking on an .R3D clip in a bin I believe.

RMD just stands for Red Metadata. It can contain a look, framing, a link to a right eye when doing 3D, etc ...

You can save .R3D's from RCX. This is called a Trim export. However, you can't rewrite metadata. Infact, you can never modify the original source file. When you do a trim
in RCX, a new .RMD will be placed alongside the new .R3D containing the current look, framing, etc ...

There are quite a few reasons for the existence of RMD, philosophical and practical

CS5 will never alter the original source file either. I'd browse the Adobe Workflow forum for more exact details on a workflow suitable to your needs.

David

OK, I'm confused again (so what else is new).

The Source Settings are in the Clip menu in CS5. That's no problem.

But, I still don't understand what I need to do to save a clip, altered in RCX, so I can add it to the editing I'm doing in CS5. If I must have it as a RMD file, that's fine, but how do I get it into the CS5 program if the program cannot "see" the RMD file?

Once I'm done with a clip in RCX, if I save it as a Trim, can I put THAT file into CS5? And, the original is NOT touched, correct? I think that's what you mean by "....you can't rewrite metadata." etc, etc. So, if I export a Trim file it will not affect the original, correct?

Sorry for the confusion. Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew !!

Thanks.

.

 

[David Ibbitson]

Hi George,

You'll never alter a clip in RCX, only the RMD. Once you have done your grade in RCX and saved off an RMD, in PP open the Source Settings dialog and click "Reload from RMD".
If the RMD is present next to the R3D (and it should be), PP will load that look.

What I meant by "you can't rewrite metadata" is that you can't create a Trim where a look created in RCX will be baked into the new R3D.

Cheers,
David

Forget to mention -- You need atleast PP 5.0.2 for the ability to load RMD files.

 

[Patrick Tresch]

Does RMD also include the HDRx settings?

Thanks

Pat

 

[David Ibbitson]

It does

David

 

[George D.]

Hi George,

You'll never alter a clip in RCX, only the RMD. Once you have done your grade in RCX and saved off an RMD, in PP open the Source Settings dialog and click "Reload from RMD".
If the RMD is present next to the R3D (and it should be), PP will load that look.

What I meant by "you can't rewrite metadata" is that you can't create a Trim where a look created in RCX will be baked into the new R3D.

Cheers,
David

Forget to mention -- You need atleast PP 5.0.2 for the ability to load RMD files.

I don't know how much more of this I can take. I am about to give up.

If the shots we do with our Red-One come out crappy, we'll just have to live with it, because I will NEVER figure all this out. I guess it goes back to the old days of film; you either got it right, or you didn't. So, you better damn well know what you're doing.

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[Deanan]

I don't know how much more of this I can take. I am about to give up.

If the shots we do with our Red-One come out crappy, we'll just have to live with it, because I will NEVER figure all this out. I guess it goes back to the old days of film; you either got it right, or you didn't. So, you better damn well know what you're doing.

.

That's the opposite of the intent. By not altering the raw, you can always go back to the R3D and develop it defferently without baking things in. If you go into CS5.5 and change the settings, it's no different than doing it in RCX.

 

[George D.]

That's the opposite of the intent. By not altering the raw, you can always go back to the R3D and develop it defferently without baking things in. If you go into CS5.5 and change the settings, it's no different than doing it in RCX.

Thank you. Now THAT makes sense. For most shots I'd rather do the altering in CS5 anyway.

But, why do the shots coming directly out of the Red-One look so low in contrast, dull, and rather flat? Is there any way of altering that in the camera menu so they do not come out that way?

Thanks for all the help. A drowning man needs all the help he can get.....cough, sputter, gag !!!

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[Elsie N]

...
But, why do the shots coming directly out of the Red-One look so low in contrast, dull, and rather flat?
...

That's what RAW do.

 

[George D.]

That's what RAW do.

OK, fine! But, is there a way to change that in the menu so they do NOT come out that way?

.

 

[jimhare]

Hi George, there are several ways to do this. Sounds like you may have your view set to RAW, which will be flat and non-contrasty. On the back of the Red push VIDEO, then select VIEW and make sure the setting is RED SPACE, not RAW. This should get you 80% of the way there.

As for your footage, my advice is to use REDgamma2 and REDcolor2 as a starting point. Yes it will initially reduce some contrast, but it will give you a wide dynamic range. There are ways to go even further by using the REDLogFILM, but you would need to know a lot more about the process to get good results.

Using these settings you should get a good look right out of the camera, and an even better one with these couple of tweaks.

Have patience and go with the flow. The amazing results you are after are waiting for you inside the guts of all this and with a bit of time it will become second nature.

It literally takes me about 45 seconds to go from a RAW R3D to the most beautiful footage you can imagine. You will get there too, just don't get frustrated in the early stages.

Might be worth reaching out to a local owner who is fluent in the post process and spend an afternoon with them in their suite.

 

[Deanan]

Thank you. Now THAT makes sense. For most shots I'd rather do the altering in CS5 anyway.

But, why do the shots coming directly out of the Red-One look so low in contrast, dull, and rather flat? Is there any way of altering that in the camera menu so they do not come out that way?

Thanks for all the help. A drowning man needs all the help he can get.....cough, sputter, gag !!!

.

The only thing different RCX is that it by default has the black level raised a bit so there is room to grade without it being clipped by us.
The first thing I'd recommend is using shadow to notch the black level down to where you like it. Then add a little contrast with the contrast slider or the curve. It starts out a bit flat so you are starting with a wider view of the range so you can then push in as needed.