Lighting tips for Day/Exterior for a "TV Commercial" look

[Luis Reggiardo]

Hi!, I mostly have lighting experience indoors (graduating from cinemat. school), but next week I have to shot a scene on EX1 (video latitude) with a clean and really nice commercial look.

I'm looking for links/articles/tips about shooting day under sunlight. I'm looking for tips about best use of reflector-screns, silk/grid, small HMI (6K)... which is the available equipment.

Look is for advertising, nice colors, very well exposed faces and skies with good ratio control and above all keep an even exposure/ratio for one scene, but shooting during the full daylight hours, even at noon.

Thank you!!
Luis

 

[Raul Gonzo]

It would probably be good to get a mattebox with a few NDs also if you can.
Good luck with it

 

[Luis Reggiardo]

yeah, I'll have UV + ND (clear+grad soft & hard), but I mean about the bouncing/difussion techniques + hmi use to have an even lighting during the day (from open shots to close ups)

thx!
L

It would probably be good to get a mattebox with a few NDs also if you can.
Good luck with it

 

[Chris Newman]

Search Google for the following (2748 is David Mullen's thread):
site:reduser.net 2748 silk

http://www.google.com/search?q=site:reduser.net+2748+silk

Then try things other than silk, such as sunlight, etc.

 

[Charles Angus]

I'd say overhead silk, then soft 3/4 frontlight talent with either a big bounce, or the 6k through a big diffusion frame.

But that's just me. I don't know what your shots are...

 

[donatello b]

also speak to your (a) gaffer ( experienced) ... they do this every other project & work with many DP's .. they should have some tips that will work within your budget ...

 

[Dominic Jones]

also speak to your (a) gaffer ( experienced) ... they do this every other project & work with many DP's .. they should have some tips that will work within your budget ...

That's good advice...

I'd say overhead silk, then soft 3/4 frontlight talent with either a big bounce, or the 6k through a big diffusion frame.

But that's just me. I don't know what your shots are...

As is that...

I'd add this:
Try half soft frost overhead, instead of silk. Lovely light, less stop loss.

Use a polarizer filter as well as (or instead of if you want the stop) your ND. UV may or may not be of much use, depending on atmospheric conditions when and where you're shooting.

Try to pick your times of day and schedule to have good light quality so that you're not fighting the sun - avoid midday like the plague! I know this isn't always easy as schedules can be tight, but if you're going for an expensive look, you have to at least try to emulate expensive practices - such as waiting for the right lighting conditions for your shot.

Try to get nice large bounce/frame sources - the commercials look often uses very, very soft light to fill or key (with the sun providing a hard[er] key or backlight) - again, tricky on lower budgets, but get as close as you can...

HTH, and have fun!
Dom.

 

[Luis Reggiardo]

Thank you all! I'll go with 2 x 6K HMI or maybe 1 x 12K HMI + 1 x 6K HMI, depending on the budget.

I'll try to use the sun as a backlight for all the shots (winter time here on the south, Sun goes up no more than 30º, and steady!), since we are shooting during all day for a 30" spot...

For the keylight I'll use a mix of:
- Reflected sunlight from silver soft 1x1 bounce cards.
- Reflected sunlight from 12x12 white Silk.
- 12K HMI PAR through 250 difussion (or Silk?).

Also, I will diffuse the overhead sunlight with a 12x12 white Silk for closeups.

If sunlight starts to vanish or it gets cloudy, I'll put the 6K HMI PAR or silver hard 1x1 bounce for BACKLIGHT and stick with the 12K HMI Par for key.

What do you think?

My questions now...:

- Which difussion (216/250/251/Frost/Opal... 12x12 Silk) would you choose to diffuse the 12K Par used as a front/45º Keylight? Keep in mind I'm after a nice, soft & clean "TV commercial" look.

- From the three key diffused options (silver soft bounce / white silk / 12K HMI), which would you opt for the key if you had a full sunny day?... and which one if you had a cloudy day?

- For really wide shots (bunch of people running towards the camera on an open field under sunlight)... would you use many silver soft bounce cards? or just leave it without adding anything and letting just the sun on the front/backlight?

-Do you normally use polarizer for outdoors when shooting people under the sun?

Thank you all!

L

 

[Florian Stadler]

Polarizer is horrible on people's skin. Only use it on wide shots if at all.

Shoot wide shots when the sun is good (early morning, late afternoon) and fill in as necessary

Shoot close ups at noon and completely reshape the light.

Try to schedule the day so you're always in 3/4 backlight.

Bounce/reflect is always more natural than lights but depending on tress/buildings you have to light sometimes.

 

[Charles Angus]

If you're using the 6k for key normally, I would stick with it as your key, and fire up the 12k as your backlight if you're trying to match the look of low sun rimming the subject.

The silver bounce as backlight mimic-ing the sun won't work, even a mirror board doesn't have much punch in overcast conditions. The 6k PAR might have to be pretty close to mimic sunlight.

If I was to use the 12k as a key, I wouldn't use anything less than a 6x6 frame to diffuse it, and use a pretty cheesy diffusion, 216 at least. Maybe grid. You don't want to feel the source, you just want one side to be brighter, with good wraparound. The bigger the source, the better. Remember that there are two components to softness of light: source size vs. subject size, and specularity/diffuse-ness. Bigger frames with stronger diffusion = softer (but more stop loss - the eternal dilemma).

For a very wide shot it depends on what you want it to look like re: sun in front or sun behind. You'll be able to hold detail in the sky better (at all) with the sun frontlighting them, but if a grad is an option (ie. static shot) that may not matter.

 

[Luis Reggiardo]

More definite questions

More definite questions

here's more info and some final questions!!!

It's for my first small TV commercial. I'm shooting all over the day, possible semi-overcast conditions.

I'm looking for a "correct", well exposed, nice colours, soft shadows and soft backlight, nice skins look. Shooting on EX1 with tweaked Picture Profiles.

I'm planning to use:
-12x12 frame with Half Soft Frost for overhead difussion (not too low).
-6K HMI PAR through a 12x12 frame with white Silk at 45º to the right, the silk could also be at a 45º declination to add some sun-bounce fill at the same time.
-12K HMI PAR at 45º back for backlight with 1/2 CTO (if there's stable sun and I can arrange the correct camera positions, just use the sun as backlight -> winter sun on theses latitudes, so it's going to be up 32º elevated over the horizon during the whole day).
-Pola on camera to bring out some color tones.

I cannot use 20x20frames because of windy conditions.

Question are:
- Would you put the 6K as backlight and 12K as key or the other way around?
- Would you add a difussion (say 250) to the front HMI that goes thorugh the Silk to the actor's face?
- Would you add some difussion to the backlight or which lens would you use? (I'm looking for a natual "not studio" back)
- For wide shots (a bunch of people around a 20mt line), would you just put the sun behind or also add some fill with soft reflectors + 12K + 6K through Silk? (I have 4 soft and 2 soft available)
- If its too cloudy all the day, would you still use an overhead difussion or leave it clear?

Thanks!
Luis