Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

REDCINE to DNxHD

Avid offers a free Quicktime codec pack at their site, which includes DNxHD.
Unfortunately the mac version is not Universal Binary yet, so it wont work inside Redcine on the Mac.
 
For the record avid's not really playing nice with any outside data workflow right now. I'm involved in the S2/Viper workflow like was just used on Zodiac. If you're working in final cut its the dogs bullocks as we have automated batch capture, automated archiving, and auto conform. All based around open XML. If you're working with Avid though right now it means digibeta layoffs, hand written EDL's, and manual conform.

Avid is still very much stuck in a tape workflow, which is very tough when you're talking about switching to an entirely file based workflow.
 
Jeff Brue said:
If you're working in final cut its the dogs bullocks as we have automated batch capture, automated archiving, and auto conform. All based around open XML.
Click to expand...

How does FCP do batch capture, automated archiving and auto conform work in a data workflow?

A couple guesses... Are you using the 600A for capture? Standard tape backup for automated archiving? Auto conform... with media manager?
 
The automated batch capture happens over HD-SDI from a device we have called the idock. It takes the properly formatted dmags with all the meta data attached and generates a final cut xml for ingest. It then takes the DPX's and plays them out realtime over HD-SDI. We can then do whatever res/compression we want to them via our Kona cards. After that we have an automatic device that takes the dmag and archives it to two LTO-3 tapes. All with attached meta data and whatnot after that point its just a matter of generating an edl grabbing just those frames from the tapes and conforming.

These are all tools I hope to see Red or third party developers create, because I really don't believe there has been a good post production workflow devised yet for archival/storage and generation of material for editorial. Right now it sounds like a 3 Hour Red-Raid is going to take 12 hours to debayer (based on the Dalsa's debayering algo, not graeme's).

Right now the lines between production/prepost/post are blurring more than ever before. This happens EVEN more when you step into a data workflow.
 
Hey Jeff, I think that slow debayer is only if you want high-quality. I believe that Cineform RAW demonstrates real-time (fast/low quality) debayering that's good enough for offline purposes. Presumably Red has options for debayer quality + speed, and that the fastest speed is pretty reasonable (and hopefully faster than real-time?). Regardless, I guess this speculation would be settled by NAB time. People from Red have been saying to hold off speculation until NAB.

2- Curious: How come if the dmag spits out HD-SDI, why would you need to layoff to dbeta? (Could you not get a HD Media Composer?)

And why would you need handwritten EDLs?
 
Just read a note by Avid's Adam Kranitz on Avid AXP board regarding the use of DNxHD codecs in a file-based workflow:

"Ikegami Editcam system currently offers the only direct import of DNxHD from a tapeless camera. Other options would require a transcode to DNxHD or capture via HD-SDI on an Adrenaline with DNXcel. The source code for Avid DNxHD codec is freely licensable allowing any vendor to add it to their product line. We'd love more manufacturers to add it as an option."

The need to use Adrenaline with DNXcel is a pricey option. A software transcode using REDCINE from Redcode Raw to DNxHD would be amazing. Can anyone FROM RED chime in on this?
 
... how would it be any different than using combustion or fusion?

Any program that uses Avid's Codecs to write to DNxHD Quicktime will do it in exactly the same way.
 
Shall we say it one more time? Let's try a mathematical proof:

REDCINE will export to, amongst other things, any Quicktime codec.

DNxHD is available from Avid as a Quicktime codec (and now, a Universal Binary!)

Therefore, REDCINE will export to, amongst other things, the DNxHD Quicktime codec.

Make sense?
 
Yes, it makes sense. My question was more to do with the process; so, if I understand correctly, Redcine will transcode to DNxHD, which in turn would be imported to Avid for editing.

Let me then recap (and correct me if I am wrong):

-shoot in (example) 1080p RGB
-use Redcine to transcode to (example) DNxHD 220
-import to Avid
-edit
-export to delivery format (example), say HDCAM or HD DVD/Blueray

Makes sense?
 
GlennChan said:
Hey Jeff, I think that slow debayer is only if you want high-quality. I believe that Cineform RAW demonstrates real-time (fast/low quality) debayering that's good enough for offline purposes. Presumably Red has options for debayer quality + speed, and that the fastest speed is pretty reasonable (and hopefully faster than real-time?). Regardless, I guess this speculation would be settled by NAB time. People from Red have been saying to hold off speculation until NAB.

2- Curious: How come if the dmag spits out HD-SDI, why would you need to layoff to dbeta? (Could you not get a HD Media Composer?)

And why would you need handwritten EDLs?
Click to expand...

Because you always end up working with a post house that has a 4 year old avid investment :-( And wants to cut using it. The hardest thing is that there are so many businesses in production that WON'T ascribe to a data workflow to protect a current investment in tape. It can be as simple as I'm willing to offer them a 1 TB hard drive for free to cut with to use DNxHD (which I can get too) but they will not because avid doesn't ascribe to the workflow.

Quite frustrating and something I expect everyone here to be faced with soon the (you want to give me WHAT!!! variable).
 
What would a digital workflow look like using RedCine and Avid DNxHD?

The steps in general must be:

1) Use RedCine to export offline DNxHD resolution
2) Use Avid Media Composer to edit to final cut
3) Use Redcine to export higher "online resolution" to external hard-drive (according to EDL list).
4) Using that EDL list (?), re-import the higher res footage into Avid Media Composer and get a good night's sleep while Avid renders it all.

I'm not sure if RedCine will be able to deal with an EDL list (no one is sure until NAB I guess). Actually, I don't even know how the EDL is generated in an Avid all digital workflow.
 
bakalaj said:
Yes, it makes sense. My question was more to do with the process; so, if I understand correctly, Redcine will transcode to DNxHD, which in turn would be imported to Avid for editing.

Let me then recap (and correct me if I am wrong):

-shoot in (example) 1080p RGB
-use Redcine to transcode to (example) DNxHD 220
-import to Avid
-edit
-export to delivery format (example), say HDCAM or HD DVD/Blueray

Makes sense?
Click to expand...

To my understanding, RedCine will work from RAW files only, so the above would not work. This, however, would:

-shoot in 4K RedCode RAW
-use Redcine to transcode to DNxHD 220
-import to Avid
-edit
-export to delivery format (example), say HDCAM or HD DVD/Blueray
 
DNxHD is not a mastering format even though they advertise it as such. The algorithm is really quite messy. Compare it to DVCproHD not cineform or redcode rgb.
 
Dominic Jones said:
To my understanding, RedCine will work from RAW files only, so the above would not work.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure Rob or Graeme said at one point that REDCINE will work with all flavours of REDCODE, RAW and RGB. It's a while since the discussion happened, but it was also said (by Stuart I think) that it would be possible to record REDCODE RGB unprocessed, so that similar processing could be done in REDCINE as with REDCODE RAW.

Not with the initial release of course, and "all specs subject to change" etc…
 
Jeff Brue said:
DNxHD is not a mastering format even though they advertise it as such. The algorithm is really quite messy. Compare it to DVCproHD not cineform or redcode rgb.
Click to expand...

It all depends on your delivery requirements. I work mostly in broadcast and believe it or not, most broadcasters still require DigiBeta (SD) as their primary masters. HDCAM or DVCPRO HD will be very accepted delivery formats for years and so going from DNxHD220 to HDCAM should work just fine, shouldn't it?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top