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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Redcine - Long output times

Lucas that should make it's way into the TXT file that ships with Redcine, and be a sticky on here. VERY useful info!

_mike
 
Isnt there a shortcut to disable viewer updates?
(In Aftereffects and FCP you can press caps-lock to disable screenupdates.)

Would be nice if you cold leave the viewer res at highest resolution and just enable viewer updating when needed.
 
I'll say it again; I think that being able to shoot 1080 SCALED from the 4K sensor would be a very desireable feature. One of the coolest things about this camera when it was in development was the scalability; 4K, 2K, 1080, 720 IN CAMERA. That seems to have been dropped now.
For loads of commercials, music videos, and corporate work, intolerably long export times will make my camera a nonstarter with some clients... it's disappointing, but I have trouble with some editors who use Avids and can't get it together with P2 files!!! What do you think these guys will say about the 43 hour export of each day's Red One footage?
I'm sure it will all work out, but it sounds as if people are looking to cut and finish in 1080, and the software-based render of the large camera RAW files is not at the moment an acceptable solution.
Whatever happened to the idea of "flashing" the FPGA into whatever configuration best suited your current project? Now, THAT would be a revolution! :)
Cheers,
Harry
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Not an "oh, my producer is going to flip if he has to wait an extra 10 minutes to convert footage" situation.
Click to expand...

Mr. Kilgore,
maybe it's more that the producer won't pay for the extra time it takes to transcode. But with that being said I agree with your philosophy in principal.

cheers

Method
 
harryclark said:
I'll say it again; I think that being able to shoot 1080 SCALED from the 4K sensor would be a very desireable feature. One of the coolest things about this camera when it was in development was the scalability; 4K, 2K, 1080, 720 IN CAMERA. That seems to have been dropped now.
For loads of commercials, music videos, and corporate work, intolerably long export times will make my camera a nonstarter with some clients... it's disappointing, but I have trouble with some editors who use Avids and can't get it together with P2 files!!! What do you think these guys will say about the 43 hour export of each day's Red One footage?
I'm sure it will all work out, but it sounds as if people are looking to cut and finish in 1080, and the software-based render of the large camera RAW files is not at the moment an acceptable solution.
Whatever happened to the idea of "flashing" the FPGA into whatever configuration best suited your current project? Now, THAT would be a revolution! :)
Cheers,
Harry
Click to expand...

Harry,

Well said, Jim did post a reply to the 1080 issue:

"Firmware updates will be done for 1080P and 720P (not 1080i). They will be Special firmware builds (separate from 4K and 2K) won't be done until sometime in 2008.

Not sure why you would ever want these... but we will do them.

Jim"

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5803&highlight=jannard

Hopefully, 1080 high frame rates scaled from 4k will be in the 2008 firmware build 2.

Method
 
Well now that we know the render times in REDcine.. We are looking for two options:

1. A massive speed improvement in rendering from 2k to 1080p/i, 720p. or 480
2. Jim's 2nd firmware concept that will allow bypass of render or a different format that will allow REDCine to render in a completely different speed.

Bottom line: The camera is great, and I am NOT asking for "real time" work at 4k.. For that I understand time will be needed.. I'm cool.. But for me, 2k should be a must faster delivery format.

My 2 cents

Jay
 
Rob mentioned this in an earlier post but the rate at which the data gets written is also a huge factor here. You've got to write 2K and 4K files to hard disk and if you are using FW 400 that will be slower than, FW 800, which will be slower than, SATA which will be slower than fiber.

Does anyone have some results when writing to a very fast arry via FIber Channel, SAS, or eSATA. That might have as much to do with this as machine speed and GFX cards.

Windows vs. MAC comparisons will be interesting too if one is building a RED transfer station.

David
 
Cripes Guy's!

What did you expect with 4k RAW footage? Of course this will be a slow process compared with HD video (just look at how much bigger a 4k image is compared to 1080). The processing times available to us now compare favourably with getting dailies for a 35mm shoot which is appropriate for such high quality footage.

There will be a solution to those, me included, who require faster processing times for a broadcast 1080 environment. It'll probably consist of a HD-SDI transfer from the camera - or record to a 1080 format deck/computer during the shoot. One would get the benefit of a 35mm DOF+FOV but the working times for 1080 plus having a 4k REDCODE raw digital negative!

I for one have been planning my 4k workflow with at least two computers. One for processing the 4k REDCODE raw files the other for the actual editing process. The most important thing that concerns me is that the computer and the software processing the 4k footage is that it will be stable, not prone to crashing so I can safely leave it to work overnight... I imagine having a computer running only the OS (I'd prefer the stability of Win 2k for that but heh-ho) and REDCINE that's it, no internet connection and a UPS power supply!

I am also aware of the "impatient & technically ignorant producer" scenario and was initially quite worried about it but with a little bit of planning and marketing the camera properley (savings on film stock, processing etc, ultra high quality pictures) I think we can smooth the furrowed brows of producers especially as the business gets used to 4k shooting and workflows. The industry did it before when most exterior TV shoots were done on 16/S16/35mm film.

And remember it is they, the broadcast/film industry, who are asking for high quality pictures. The phrase "good things come to those who wait" comes to mind regarding this issue.

JohnF
 
Currently, the fastest way to export REDCODE RAW footage is from RED Alert! REDCINE needs some optimization to catch up in render times.

BTW, the camera now boots in 60 seconds instead of over 90 seconds. We still have a way to go, but we are making progress on all fronts.

Jim
 
Jim,

Thanks for the continued commitment to making an already good products even better.

It inspires confidence.

David
 
Disapointing about the NVidia problem on the mac. So much for getting the MB Pro, although it has worked out for other jobs. Hopefully they take care of that problem eventually.

I see using the camera's HD-SDI ports to a recorder as a possible solution to these long render times. Just need to get a camera to try everything out and see what the quality is like all around. I'm sure all of these things will improve as time goes on and we get more powerful computers. We're living on the bleeding edge and sometimes it hurts.

Steve
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
Well now that we know the render times in REDcine.. We are looking for two options:

1. A massive speed improvement in rendering from 2k to 1080p/i, 720p. or 480
2. Jim's 2nd firmware concept that will allow bypass of render or a different format that will allow REDCine to render in a completely different speed.

Bottom line: The camera is great, and I am NOT asking for "real time" work at 4k.. For that I understand time will be needed.. I'm cool.. But for me, 2k should be a must faster delivery format.

My 2 cents

Jay
Click to expand...

Do you plan to deliver in 2k, then 2k what? Or do you mean process to 1080 from 2k.

In the end, it's up to you to figure out how to optimize your own system.

This is why a lot of high end post houses can do fast turnarounds. They put in the bundled Gigbit networks, use Infiniband connected SAN systems, run customized renderfarms, and are open pretty much 24/7.

It seems to make sense to use Macs with FCP for the editing and a bunch of optimized PCs for the Redcine processing from 4k/2k to dpx.
 
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