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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Redcine - Long output times

1)cut realtime via th QT wrappers (created by redalert) in FCP, or transcode the wrapper files to a off line codec in quicktime or FCP MUCH faster than doing it in REDCINE.

2)then export a XML via FCP,

3) Import that into AE (via fcptoAE from: here)

4)Then manually go into RedCine and create a pull list of my edit

5) render from redcine at 4k

6)import those clips into AE

7) replace the existing LQ clips in the AE project, change project settings to 4k etc.

8) drink beer

Most of this workflow could be automated with a little applescript/perl/tktcl/cobalt/whateverscriptyouwant. The only thing that holds this back is REdCine's understanding of a pull list.

This can be worked around by making a small program that would refrance the r3d files listed in the EDL/XML then 1) set the metadata of the r3d to the in/out listed in the EDL/XML then 2) move them into a directory by themselves. That way RedCine could jut import the directory.

_mike
 
Speed Tests:

NOTE: For both systems the test .r3d file was located on our local RAID- via gigabit connection

Test File: Jim's 4K Dragster footage (236 frames)
Output: 1080P 10 bit DPX files
Write files to desktop

System 1-
Windows XP
2 x QuadCore Intel Xeon X5355 @2.67Ghz
4GB RAM
Quadro FX 4500 (latest drivers, Oct 4th release)
Close to realtime playback at "1/2 HIGH"

RENDER TIME: 2:43


System 2-
17" MacBook Pro
2.4ghz
4gb ram
Nvidia GeForce 8600M 256MB highres screen
Close to realtime playback at "1/4 HIGH"

RENDER TIME: 12:40

Here are the RedCine settings if you want to compare:
slight s-curve
contrast 1.1
exposure .46
Color ]
5.781
0.000
-2.522
Kelvin- 6700
saturation 1.1
10-bit DPX 1080P
 
Great, thanks for that comparison! Sounds like most users are going to need a dedicated computer that handles all things render within RedCine. Luckily PCs are relatively cheap to assemble so that shouldn't be a big problem.

Thanks Mike for the rundown.. I'm going to play with this..
 
A macbook pro will always be slow when processing 4K footage, sorry. It will get better when we optimize things, but it's a lot of data to push around. If the new macbook's are nvidia indeed and the Apple driver has not been "fixed" then I have to advice to not use it for 4K rendering in REDCINE (which you probably want to do on an 8-core with a proper raid system anyway).

2K and lower should be fine (but keep in mind that REDCINE will do a full 4K decode and then downsample that to 2K when you're outputting high quality, so it will still have problems with the nvidia slow down on OS X)
 
Mike Prevette said:
1)cut realtime via th QT wrappers (created by redalert) in FCP, or transcode the wrapper files to a off line codec in quicktime or FCP MUCH faster than doing it in REDCINE.

2)then export a XML via FCP,

3) Import that into AE (via fcptoAE from: here)

4)Then manually go into RedCine and create a pull list of my edit

5) render from redcine at 4k

6)import those clips into AE

7) replace the existing LQ clips in the AE project, change project settings to 4k etc.

8) drink beer

Most of this workflow could be automated with a little applescript/perl/tktcl/cobalt/whateverscriptyouwant. The only thing that holds this back is REdCine's understanding of a pull list.

This can be worked around by making a small program that would refrance the r3d files listed in the EDL/XML then 1) set the metadata of the r3d to the in/out listed in the EDL/XML then 2) move them into a directory by themselves. That way RedCine could jut import the directory.

_mike
Click to expand...

what about automtic duck? do you see any use for it?
 
AD Is a great program, I've worked with Wes Plate the creator of it a few times here in Seattle. In this instance it wouldn't be doing anything RED specific, it would just be doing what a free script can already do in number 3 of the list above. Since this is an offline edit at that point the complex conversions that AD do wouldn't be utilized. AD is a GREAT product and i highly recommend it, but in this case it wouldn't be helping you out to much.
 
My goal is to be able to take a 2k REDCode file, then output/downconvert it to 1080i or 720p or 480i.

As I understand it, only quicktime is available.. But I would sure love some windows formats in this (Like uncompressed AVI for SD).

I will have my fun, but this is what I will need to make money

Jay
 
minutes, that would jive with what I'm getting.
 
It's MUCH faster if you take the 2K QT proxy that the camera and REDAlert builds and export that to ProRes.

on my 2.66 Quad Mac Pro
6:1 using FCP and 2K QT proxy exported to ProRes 1080 HQ
44:1 using RedCine

Like Rob said on another thread, the quality using the 2K proxy is high enough for most purposes. I agree. If you need the extra oomph, then off to conform-land. :)
 
kenn michael said:
It's MUCH faster if you take the 2K QT proxy that the camera and REDAlert builds and export that to ProRes.

on my 2.66 Quad Mac Pro
6:1 using FCP and 2K QT proxy exported to ProRes 1080 HQ
44:1 using RedCine

Like Rob said on another thread, the quality using the 2K proxy is high enough for most purposes. I agree. If you need the extra oomph, then off to conform-land. :)
Click to expand...

Yes, but being the anal type...I am a freak for the highest quality possible. Prefer to take the long road and enjoy the view.
 
Hey guys,

A couple of really, really important things to keep in mind when rendering:

1) If you're rendering Quicktimes and rescaling, do the rescaling in the Shot part of REDCINE as opposed to setting the resolution in Output. Rescaling via Project and Shot settings in REDCINE is done by the GPU and REDCINE code. Leaving your project at 4K 2:1 (or whatever) and setting a different resolution in output assigns the resize to Quicktime, which is really, really sloooooooow.

2) I'm pretty sure this is in the tutorial videos, but there is the "Full," "Standard," and "Draft" options. Full pulls from the Wavelet at 4K/High. Standard pulls from 2K/High, and Draft pulls from 1K/High.

There is a *huge* gap in rendering between Full and Standard. Do your own tests and decide what is good enough in quality for what you need. If you can at all get away with rendering at Standard, do that. Render times will be much, much better.

3) NVidia drivers on OSX are not great. That is what it is. There are specific problems rendering "Full" with NVidia on OSX. It will be an unbearably slow render. This will get better as Apple improves the drivers (Apple writes their own drivers,) but until they do, this will continue to be an issue and not a whole lot can be done about it.

4) When rendering, set your Viewer resolution at 1/4 Medium. That is just the viewing resolution and does not affect output settings. But, the image is refreshed in the viewer every time a frame renders. If you have Output settings at Draft, and the view at Full/High, it will take a really long time - not because of the render, but because the Viewer is updating every rendered frame with a full 4K/High debayer.

5) Common sense, but close any other apps when rendering. Rendering out of REDCINE is a very CPU and GPU-intensive process. If other programs are open and claiming their own chunk of memory and resources, it will only hurt the render time.

6) When rendering to DPX, TIFF, or other high-bandwidth formats - storage is a big factor. The faster the pipe, the faster the render.

----

Bottom line - rendering is ALL about figuring out where the bottlenecks are and doing what you can to minimize those bottlenecks.

Lucas
------
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA

Currently drinking: Full Sail IPA
 
luki said:
A couple of really, really important things to keep in mind when rendering:

1)

If you're rendering Quicktimes and rescaling, do the rescaling in the Shot part of REDCINE as opposed to setting the resolution in Output. Rescaling via Project and Shot settings in REDCINE is done by the GPU and REDCINE code. Leaving your project at 4K 2:1 (or whatever) and setting a different resolution in output assigns the resize to Quicktime, which is really, really sloooooooow.
Click to expand...

This seems counter intuitive.

For my render tests I scaled in SHOT to 1080P, and then set the same setting (1080P) in output, as I assumed since I was outputting I needed to tell it what I wanted.

So, how was the resize done in my case?
 
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