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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red "Weapon" Name Poll - Change it or not?

Red "Weapon" Name Poll - Change it or not?

  • Keep the name "Weapon"

    Votes: 91 17.5%

  • Please change the name

    Votes: 339 65.2%

  • I could care less what the name is

    Votes: 90 17.3%
  • Total voters
    520
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Phil Holland said:
I understand the "issue". I was hoping to point out and odd conundrum to invoke thought and was a bit curious.
Click to expand...


The odd conundrum can be turned into clear picture, through consideration of notions presented in this thread with localized LUT bypassed.

Meden Agan.
 
Nikhil Kamkolkar said:
Phil, you always have a rational and intelligent viewpoint. I'd like to offer some thoughts.

Who is the question being directed to? Those who already have the DRAGON? Those who don't own ANY RED cameras? Those who can afford an Alexa? Those who only plan to rent but not buy? Each person may have a different answer to it.

Its actually unimportant whether its the BEST camera out there, the thing is its a NEEDED upgrade for many pain points with DRAGON, so it should have been a painless upgrade for those who can afford to upgrade to it. The name gets in the way for reasons already mentioned. On set confusion is a NEW issue I hadn't even considered, but there it is. I hope RED reads that post above carefully.

More such issues have the potential to be discovered as this goes out. The unknown unknowns.

Now, could the name have a potential benefit and increase in sales BECAUSE of the name? Has anyone done a sales projection for that scenario? Anyone want to share those numbers? Maybe then RED shouldn't care about the few 'whiners', right?

The MISSION statement Mr. Jannard put out there is brilliant!! It just doesn't need to translate into a model name. Even the process of upgrading can be called weaponizing, but it doesn't have to be a model name. And I think that's where the rub is.

Its just unnecessary friction for some users and why should one introduce that friction when the user base has been so patient with all of the pain points as RED has grown and learnt? And now, just as they are about to deliver a solution for it all, why load it up with unnecessary baggage? This should have been the smoothest upgrade EVER. That should have been RED's goal from the moment they sat down and thought about it.

P.S. The question to ask is - who would NOT buy the camera unless its named "weapon"? And if RED chooses to super serve THIS segment of the user base, over those who have an issue with the name (for a variety of different, non-related reasons), the question to ask is, why?

P.P.S. I think even a very simple and presumably boring to many model name like "D 2" would rock it more for me than "weapon" does. This camera really is a second iteration and it should own it.
Click to expand...

Very nicely stated.

Why divide a loyal user base? Why lose some redusers to the open arms of competing companies?
 
Based on this picture from Phil...

Gunleik Groven said:
10678482_10153111923792905_4244803778437646560_n.jpg
Click to expand...

For those who don't like the name; it may take more than tape to cover it effectively (?) or at least to blend it seamlessly.
 
At least we now know why RED are almost certainly not going to change the name. It is part of the machining process. Not just a word on a CAD system that can be changed or a trademark than can be easily re-filed.

But F me. I was hoping something a little subtler AND more importantly for me that the camera would still be branded as a DRAGON .

Looks like weapon couldn't be any bigger or placed more prominently? At least there are not some arrows pointing at it to further highlight it.

It looks very unfortunate.
 
Donald MJ Anderson said:
But F me. I was hoping something a little subtler AND more importantly for me that the camera would still be branded as a DRAGON .
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I can see them dropping Dragon from the body - for all we know; this new Weapon body could last the next two sensor upgrades? Easier to just change the internals than body parts as well.
 
Phil Holland said:
I'll just pose a hypothetical question here.

If there is a camera on the market that produces images you like and has the workflow you desire does it matter what it's name is?

My long standing personal opinion is if it looks like a watermelon with a lens sticking out of it and is called "Juicy and Sticky", if it's making the images I want to capture I'd have no problem shooting with it.

Like or dislike the name, that's the real question I'm thinking exists here.

More or less if the name is getting in the way of shooting with it, I would personally reconsider that perspective entirely. To each their own though.

But, let's just pretend for a second that Weapon is the best camera out there when it's available and is within your grasp to shoot on, is that name a "stopper" for you?
Click to expand...

Phil - My own, sincere, answer to this question, is "No, the name isn't a 'stopper.'" That doesn't at all mean I will ever like it. I would put it it the category of an embarrassing annoyance. And, on a somewhat light note, when I first saw the picture with the graphic on the side of the camera body saying W E A P O N , I though "Oh, shit, it's worse than I thought." lol

I won't let the name stand in the way of having the best camera I can afford - assuming I can afford it - but I do think (and I know a lot of people disagree), that RED would do well to revamp its branding and drop the macho / bad boy/ rebellious (in the pissy teenage boy sense) / testosterone heavy image. They are better than that. Their products are better than that. I fall into the camp of folks who think they have succeeded DESPITE their branding, not because of it.

Just one lone voice, lost in the wind. :smiley:
 
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Glen Powell said:
Based on this picture from Phil...



For those who don't like the name; it may take more than tape to cover it effectively (?) or at least to blend it seamlessly.
Click to expand...


Aaah. Next thing you know, they will suggest you take a grinder to it if you don't like it.
 
Dragon was a kick ass name that I loved, and sadly am not likely to ever own. In spite of my love of name I will skip it, pay more and move directly to Weapon. That is just circumstance and nothing else.

The name is disagreeable to some. To each his own. I'm with Phil though, I'd shoot with a watermelon if it did the job. You could cut out a shoulder pad, and with an inverted bottle of vodka on top you could have a fun day shooting. That might even be better than a built in espresso machine!
 
What if RED were to offer a way you could reconfigure the camera so that the word "WEAPON" is no longer visible?

Would this be an acceptable compromise? ...just curious.
 
Joe Kleber said:
What if RED were to offer a way you could reconfigure the camera so that the word "WEAPON" is no longer visible?

Would this be an acceptable compromise? ...just curious.
Click to expand...

I doubt it. Remember RED are at WAR...apparently...and they want the world to know it!

But isn't pretty much EVERY business at "war"? That's why the word feels so generic...it says literally NOTHING about the camera and really (because every business has troubles and struggles), it says nothing about RED.
 
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Donald MJ Anderson said:
I doubt it. Remember RED are at WAR...apparently...and they want the world to know it!

But isn't pretty much EVERY business is at "war"? That's why the word feels so generic...it says literally NOTHING about the camera and really (because every business has troubles and struggles), it says nothing about RED.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. ...but would it be an acceptable compromise for YOU?
 
Joe Kleber said:
What if RED were to offer a way you could reconfigure the camera so that the word "WEAPON" is no longer visible?

Would this be an acceptable compromise? ...just curious.
Click to expand...

If I can afford it, I'll buy Weapon, no matter what it is called.

If they gave me a choice to leave off the name, I would.

As an aside, I can visualize just how many of those folks out there who LOVE to hate RED, will have a field day making fun of the name. You think "FCPX is a toy" is overdone? Hah. lol
 
Phil Holland said:
I'll just pose a hypothetical question here.

If there is a camera on the market that produces images you like and has the workflow you desire does it matter what it's name is?
Click to expand...


If I'm detained at a Chinese customs and immigration station for an afternoon as they reassure themselves that it's not a problem and I miss my flight to the next location yeah it does matter.

Especially if my camera goes out for a sports job (Lots of skiing in the pacific northwest) and comes in contact with residue from say an avalanche control explosive and sets off all of their little bomb detector alarms. Then I have a military looking pelican case, bomb residue and "Weapon" machined onto the side.
 
Gavin Greenwalt said:
If I'm detained at a Chinese customs and immigration station for an afternoon as they reassure themselves that it's not a problem and I miss my flight to the next location .
Click to expand...

Had that happen in 2008 with a pair of HVX200's - spent the night in the checkpoint waiting for them to decide what to do. Paperwork was in order, and we had a gov't minder with us even...

So it happens no matter what the name on the camera is.
 
Since I voted, I might as well add a name:

"ReddFoxx"

... so when someone asks, I can happily say "what you lookin' at, Dummy"

... on the other hand, that wouldn't fly so well at security checkpoints either...
 
Choices like names are marketing and branding choices. Weapon, Epic, Dragon were chosen to make a statement about how RED wants to be perceived.

Arriflex's D-Cinema offerings came to the table long after RED's did, and their cameras, arguably, have less flexibility and are less capable than REDs (one can debate image quality all day long), but Arriflex has managed to move into a dominant market share position. I suspect Arri's market dominance is, at least in some part, due to the difference in RED's and Arri's marketing choices, and I suspect that the branding of Weapon as such will further erode RED's market share for the same reason that Epic and Dragon have.

We on REDUser represent a VERY small portion of the camera buying market, and RED would be far wiser to ignore our petty arguments about their branding and do broader market research and brand and market in a way that maximizes their overall market share.
 
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