Red "Weapon" Name Poll - Change it or not?

[D Fuller]

But he didn't make one. Probably realized the results wouldn't be indicative of the customer base opinion, as I pointed out to him right after he made that ill-fated post. '-)

When have you ever seen Jarred make a poll?

 

[Elsie N]

When have you ever seen Jarred make a poll?

Just to add, the camera has been referred to as Weapon not only on dozens of threads here on REDuser, but in an article on Redshark news and who-knows-how-many other publications. It's branded.

 

[Donald MJ Anderson]

Im hoping we can keep this civil as so often I have seen threads deliberately derailed so a mod feels compelled to close it. Don't take the bait.

 

[Elsie N]

Im hoping we can keep this civil as so often I have seen threads deliberately derailed so a mod feels compelled to close it. Don't take the bait.

Good idea... count me in. '-)

 

[Adam Becker]

Im hoping we can keep this civil as so often I have seen threads deliberately derailed so a mod feels compelled to close it. Don't take the bait.

I agree with this sentiment strongly. This thread in particular ought to be civil and free of counterintelligence. I am not exactly optimistic that the name of the camera will be changed, but I do wish that in place of that option, there may come to exist an option for a "stealth" or "shaved" camera, that is not emblemized with the word "weapon."

 

[Sergio Perez]

I agree with this sentiment strongly. This thread in particular ought to be civil and free of counterintelligence. I am not exactly optimistic that the name of the camera will be changed, but I do wish that in place of that option, there may come to exist an option for a "stealth" or "shaved" camera, that is not emblemized with the word "weapon."

++1

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Now with the total voters at 253, the margin of error is now down to 6.15%

How do you arrive at that figure? And what is that even supposed to mean? And how do you account for any disparity amidst the willing to participate vs. the unwilling?

the amount of people that want change is still about 3 times the amount of people that would like to keep it. You can't keep using the argument that is a vocal minority.

Regardless of which side of the issue people are on, all participants in this poll constitute a minority amidst the entire RED community. IMO, if RED wants a meaningful poll, then they should send out a voting form to all registered camera owners and go from there. The form should have two concise options; Weapon: Yay or Nay.

And also regardless of how any of us feel about the name, one thing is perfectly obvious here with all the chatter around the net on multiple industry forums. Even showing up on tech gadget forums that don't necessarily revolve around cinema cameras, or cameras at all. Weapon is a hot topic for discussion, most of it is not over the name, but lots of discussion for sure. Jannard and Jarred once again show us that they can incite people, instigate discussion and awareness and are marketing geniuses. They can't buy this level of advertising.


And yes, name calling ends or this thread sleeps with the fishes.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

Jeff - you are an incredibly smart guy... brilliant, I would guess. But this is all about regular old statistics. Not really rocket science. That's where Daniel is getting his information. It is not a perfect environment for polling but there are sciences that can be drawn upon for this. I get it that RED may not want to change anything. And there are plenty of people happy about that. But everyone who has been on this forum and seen the poll, had an opportunity (no, not a requirement) to participate. This poll is simply the best quantitative information we have, like it or not. And, regardless of the "nits" it clearly says that a large percentage of the universe would either LIKE a change, or don't care. A minority are in support of keeping it as it is. Personally, I find it funny that so many people are so quick to dismiss the results because it doesn't agree with their own opinion. To that I say... whatever. :001_huh: It is my observation that the most aggressive and dismissive side here has been those who seem to think an opposition to the name is wimpy or weak or just whiny. I think those who have objected to the name have actually, for the most part, stated a thoughtful case in a respectful manner.

 

[Adam Becker]

I think that in most democratic environments, people are not required to vote. Rather, participants in a democracy are eligible and thus invited to vote. For the redusers who voiced an objection to the "weapon" name, the disappointingly low 'voter turnout' is unfortunate, especially if this 'vote' or 'poll' is disregarded in its entirety. All that I want is an option wherein I do not have to have my theoretically upgraded camera brain "adorn" with the word "weapon." Thanks for understanding.

 

[JP Perry]

You guys, the name is kinda immature. Red can do better.

 

[Ryan Sauve]

You guys, the name is kinda immature. Red can do better.

I agree but also understand there are business/marketing decisions at play here that I'm unaware of. I'm also a fan of minimalism and understatement so I have an obvious bias against Weapon. But it's just a name and I don't think it's likely to affect my work travel to the US. I can definitely emphasize with others where this isn't the case though.

 

[Clayton Burkhart]

Just change the name for god's sake.

 

[Michael Winokur]

The skull logo is more objectionable then then name.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

I think that in most democratic environments, people are not required to vote. Rather, participants in a democracy are eligible and thus invited to vote. For the redusers who voiced an objection to the "weapon" name, the disappointingly low 'voter turnout' is unfortunate, especially if this 'vote' or 'poll' is disregarded in its entirety. All that I want is an option wherein I do not have to have my theoretically upgraded camera brain "adorn" with the word "weapon." Thanks for understanding.

Two points to this (regardless of the name itself)

1) Jarred probably was joking when asking for the vote (sorry, this is an asumption, but it is based on #2)
2) RED is not at all a democratic environment, but a top-down business where Jim and Jarred (in that order) pulls the shots, so to speak.

And reduser is often refered toas "their house".

The poll has a bit of interest to me. To poll the engagement and tendency. As I am curious.
But I am afraid it is a pretty academic rehearsal.
Not a democratic movement.

And if I am to fight for democratic principles (which I happen to think are good), I would spend that energy on something that really could have an effect. Not on a cameraname.

 

[Adam Becker]

Two points to this (regardless of the name itself)

1) Jarred probably was joking when asking for the vote (sorry, this is an asumption, but it is based on #2)
2) RED is not at all a democratic environment, but a top-down business where Jim and Jarred (in that order) pulls the shots, so to speak.

And reduser is often refered toas "their house".

The poll has a bit of interest to me. To poll the engagement and tendency. As I am curious.
But I am afraid it is a pretty academic rehearsal.
Not a democratic movement.

And if I am to fight for democratic principles (which I happen to think are good), I would spend that energy on something that really could have an effect. Not on a cameraname.

Gunleik, you have created some absolutely beautiful and stunning images that I have had the pleasure of viewing on other threads.

You're completely correct that RED has no duty to change the name or to accept creative or academic critique, but there are a few redusers and red camera owners who prefer that they're able to upgrade from dragon to whatever without having "weapon" engraved or printed on their camera, for varying purpose that may be related to their own ethic, or to the nature of their work. I understand REDs thinking and also want to combat convention and seek change through my lens, but i wish to do so in peace, so ill always need to "cover" the name of the tool i own, the instrument i am using... that is why i am kindly suggesting that RED offer an option upon order that represents a 'stealth' or 'shaved' camera, that does not have to read "weapon."

 

[David Battistella]

With respect for these opinions.

I do not feel you can honestly have this debate until we actually see the product. I'm not saying don't talk about it. And here is the big BUT, no one actually knows where, how, etc the name is depicted on the brain.

Now, we've got Dragon branded on the side with Dragon 6k written somewhere across the top front. No one an assume that will be the same. The photo says RED with stylish W skull logo.

I do feel the RED digital cinema camera on a carnet is sufficient. Velcro makes for great mounting points.

so, it's the bickering and nitpicking that makes this thread hard to read and the same argument(s) on both sides being repeated ad nausium.

I ask ask that everyone take a baby step back from the keyboard on this one.

Keep in mind that there has been a very clear statement from Jim on this.


Battistella

 

[Gunleik Groven]

And I can actually 100% follow you on that.

That is not my point. And RED is rather good at listening to their customers.

But that - actually - is a totally different discussion, and where this poll may or may not have a purpose.

 

[Adam Becker]

With respect for these opinions.

I do not feel you can honestly have this debate until we actually see the product. I'm not saying don't talk about it. And here is the big BUT, no one actually knows where, how, etc the name is depicted on the brain.

Now, we've got Dragon branded on the side with Dragon 6k written somewhere across the top front. No one an assume that will be the same. The photo says RED with stylish W skull logo.

I do feel the RED digital cinema camera on a carnet is sufficient. Velcro makes for great mounting points.

so, it's the bickering and nitpicking that makes this thread hard to read and the same argument(s) on both sides being repeated ad nausium.

I ask ask that everyone take a baby step back from the keyboard on this one.

Keep in mind that there has been a very clear statement from Jim on this.


Battistella

Hi David,

i would be very pleased if the camera read only "Red Digital Cinema" or similar, and this is but my 12th post to reduser, so what do i know? I hope that the films I will photograph will create great meaning and will be a forum for further discussion, but i in no way feel that this is a mandate on RED, I just wish RDC would figure out a way that they could offer an upgrade option from dragon to whatever without "weapon" being written or engraved on the side of our camera's. I just want a blank slate from which i can craft a story. Thanks.

 

[Daniel Stilling]

How do you arrive at that figure? And what is that even supposed to mean? .

I'm just plugging the numbers we have into this poll sample size calculator:
http://www.raosoft.com/samplesize.html

not just pulling the numbers out of my behind

and whatever percentage you get as a result, means that the results could slip either way by that percentage amount.
And for significance of the amount of votes on the poll, on an election cycle, the average poll samples 1000 people in a population of possible voters of 200 million. That means one in 200.000.
http://www.pollingreport.com/ncpp.htm
On our poll, we are sampling one in every 196.5 registered Reduser, and that's a much larger sample of the total possible population.
Right now, with 280 voters, the margin of error is decreased to 5.85%.
its just math.

 

[Milan S.]

Two points to this (regardless of the name itself)

1) Jarred probably was joking when asking for the vote (sorry, this is an asumption, but it is based on #2)
2) RED is not at all a democratic environment, but a top-down business where Jim and Jarred (in that order) pulls the shots, so to speak.

And reduser is often refered toas "their house".

The poll has a bit of interest to me. To poll the engagement and tendency. As I am curious.
But I am afraid it is a pretty academic rehearsal.
Not a democratic movement.

And if I am to fight for democratic principles (which I happen to think are good), I would spend that energy on something that really could have an effect. Not on a cameraname.

You are absolutely right, this is not a democracy.
But if that's true, it's pretty unfortunate that the opinion of Red's target demographic has no bearing on their marketing.
Who is this rebellion against, their own customers?
It is all very confusing.