Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED vs SONY EX1

but it's not fair to go for the primes!!
 
Look, you can go back and forth on this all you want but both cameras are entirely different beasts. Heck, a better comparison will probably be with the EX3 next month. Combine that with a 35mm adapter or, better yet, a high quality digiprime and then do comparisons. Of course, once Scarlet gets on the table, that's when things really get interesting.

I know we've all heard this a million times but the cinematographer behind the camera makes all the difference regardless of camera choice.
 
Herring said:
This test only proves that The RED, as all video-cameras, has barely extra space in the highlights. The power is in the darks. In a setup like this I would never set the exposure on the face, but on the background - no clipping.
In post (color correction) you must be able to get much more latitude with Red than with an EX1 - when you lift the face out of the shadows.
Click to expand...

Herring, I think you might want to take a look at a few of the other posts this "MacGregor" guy has made ;)

Anyway, thanks Macgregor, you're a brave man for posting this...

NoahK, I like your Ferrari - Accord comparison. Only problem is that if you continue the analogy, many jobs Redusers get paid to work on only call for driving in Los Angeles rush-hour traffic with max speed of 30 mph.

The cheaper, more reliable (no showstopper codec errors, no genlock issues, no 16x9 issues, audio works) and convenient (can edit easily without FCP, use smaller, lighter batteries, tripod) Accord is therefore unfortunately pretty competitive on the rental market...

Jack_Felis said:
Of course, once Scarlet gets on the table, that's when things really get interesting.
Click to expand...

Yes, it is imperative that Red solve the codec errors, audio problems and workflow difficulties though. I imagine picture quality will be similar (1x 2/3" sensor with f2.8 lens vs 3x 1/2" sensors with f1.9 lens), so if RED can fix their shortcomings and offer the same level of manual focus control etc as the EX1 then they'd have a winner.

Hmm, wonder what the EX1 price will move to, seeing as EX3 is only $8300?

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
Jack_Felis said:
Look, you can go back and forth on this all you want but both cameras are entirely different beasts. Heck, a better comparison will probably be with the EX3 next month. Combine that with a 35mm adapter or, better yet, a high quality digiprime and then do comparisons. Of course, once Scarlet gets on the table, that's when things really get interesting.

I know we've all heard this a million times but the cinematographer behind the camera makes all the difference regardless of camera choice.
Click to expand...

Hi,

Adding a 35mm adapter would reduce depth of field & resolution. Digiprimes are for 2/3 inch cameras and cost an awful lot of money.

Clearly a case of horses for courses.

Stephen
 
These clips were not shot to prove how many stops of dynamic range build 16 has, but the intention was to see the difference in the image, in a way a Varicam does not look the same as a F950. And to my surprise, these two cameras render a very similar image.

At PAL resolution and even 720p i would not hesitate to mix properly well shot footage from these both cameras.

RED delivers more than enough resolution, affordable price, freedom of lenses choice and decent DR. What i really would like to achieve is a better look than the standard videoish image that most video cameras deliver. In that aspect, film still has an advantage, either because we are acostumed to its non digital nature (step aside from the latest films that go through a DI process, which usually ends looking more like digital adquired moving images), or because it simply looks more natural.
 
Obsessed With Film

Obsessed With Film

macgregor said:
What i really would like to achieve is a better look than the standard videoish image that most video cameras deliver. In that aspect, film still has an advantage, either because we are acostumed to its non digital nature (step aside from the latest films that go through a DI process, which usually ends looking more like digital adquired moving images), or because it simply looks more natural.
Click to expand...

Obsessed With Film!?

If your aesthetic choice is film and you cannot afford it to shoot on film then you shoot RED, print on film and get Moviola like machine and edit on film. Grade on film, Baselight, Da Vinci, etc... Make copies on film and then you are on film look 100%. Isn't it like a reverse DI process anyway, here you don't start with film, then go digital in post and print on film, here you start digital, print and grade on film and stay on film. Obsessed With Film!?
 
NoahK said:
Sure they both *look* similar on your monitor but you'll see a massive difference say projected 60 feet tall in a movie theater.
Click to expand...

Have you done that test? I saw a movie shot on a Sony ZR1U projected in the theater and the resolution was terrific. 2k Christy projector. I think if you look at them up close on a good monitor you'd get a really good feel for how they'll project vs. each other. The EX1 is a great 1080P camera with a lot of resolution - ergo I feel well shot EX1 would project very well at that resolution.

A 4K projector may show more in RED's favor but almost nothing is projected that way.

I spent the last 2 weekends shooting some RED and EX1 tests and I still need to really go through the footage in post. There's no doubt in my mind that the EX1 delivers very high quality low noise 1080P and excels in low light.

I don't think the RED can step down into the EX1's world very well. Even if RED was only $6500 you'd still buy the EX1 for a lot of stuff. Fast workflow, small form factor, great quality.

The question is can the EX1 step UP into RED's world and compete if it had a 35mm adapter on it. Adapter's always seem "adaptery" to me so I don't think so.
 
Shot some footage with the EX-1 + My Letus Ultimate + Zeiss lenses and the image was still pretty startling. I think that it would be enough to step up to that level if the setup is used properly. Often that's not the case.

Just like it's been said: two different animals.
 
is it possible to do a 4:4:4 or cineform RAW out of ex1? it will be a huge setup , i guess?
 
this is USD 6k, i heard ?


edit: it's only under USD5k and it does 10bit 4:2:2 uncompressed. is it possible to get 4:4:4 from ex1's HD-SDi using kona 3 card and mac pro?
 
Correct, and the smaller version (nanoFlash) coming in at 3,499.99 US. Doesn't record uncompressed, instead to a Sony 4:2:2 codec with the option of 50 - 100 mbps LongGOP or 50 - 160 mpbs I-Frame. I-Frame please.

And I thought 4:4:4 was a Dual Link HD-SDI thing? I don't think the EX-1 outputs more than 8bit 4:2:2. Probably wrong though.
 
I don't agree. In a big screen Red steps ahead the EX1 (and any other camera of its price range). Reasons:
- resolution
- no edge sharpening (visible in ex1 at big screen)
- no visible compression artifacts (ex1's mpeg2 shows mosquito/noise i shadows)
- less purple friggin (if proper lenses used)
- less lense aberrations (if proper lenses are used), ex1 shows barrel distortion
 
Hi Mac,

The EX1 looks very good with detail off.

Stephen
 
macgregor said:
I don't agree. In a big screen Red steps ahead the EX1 (and any other camera of its price range). Reasons:
- resolution
- no edge sharpening (visible in ex1 at big screen)
- no visible compression artifacts (ex1's mpeg2 shows mosquito/noise i shadows)
- less purple friggin (if proper lenses used)
- less lense aberrations (if proper lenses are used), ex1 shows barrel distortion
Click to expand...

i think a digital cinema camera is what it is. A DIGITAL CINEMA CAMERA.
 
I think people are going little off-course in this discussion. No doubt about Red's capabilities. BTW, Mcgregor and his crew has showed them to us better than anybody else.

But the similarities, of the images, especially when downsampled is astounding. It's a very surprising discovery, and will be very useful, for some projects, to mix Reds and EX1's. But it's true that we have to compare the images after the grade. because the similarities might end on the tape to tape.
 
frame 518 of the handheldmovie is the give-away ;-)
my impression was that the ex1 movie is also getting some hits when everything moves in the frames because of the mpeg2 gop compression. but is still a very nice camera.Also it's 8 bit in its recording but, so more limited colorgrading possible, and the codec is 4.2.0, dont try something with colored red sharp contours...
I had also the impression the images of the red where less shaky, but the weight difference would have helped the red to be more steady.
 
Intercutting or use of HDV in a mayor Hollywood's theater release films is already common thing.

Remember Clint Eastwood Investigates HD with Flags of our Fathers (2006).

About clipping...

I've just got Sidney Lumet's Before the Devil Knows You're Dead (2007) DVD (shot with

Panavision Genesis HD Camera, Primo Lenses) and find out use of digital clipping aesthetic in a dramatic shot very artistic and now even common

(also that was criticsized here from some "professionals" in Soderbergh's CHE at Cannes screening).

Have a look below

EthanH_01.jpg

EthanH_02.jpg

Ethan Hawke is surprised with the shots he just heard from the parents shop that he tried to rob...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top