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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED vs. 16 mm

gwertheim said:
i'd rather use RED because if I need to reshoot something I will know after I transfer the footage to my hard drive, not 2 weeks later.
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That is not a great approach really. While it's technically possible, you do need to learn to have trust in what you shoot without having to review everything.

Also think about the logistics of RED at your school? Are any of the staff/tutors really aware of RED workflow? Can they help? Will you even be able to install necessary RED tools on the edit suites?

They know 16mm. They can help and have what's needed to make it work.

Shooting on film instills good practice that can and should be applied when shooting on other formats.
 
I have profs that have used RED. I am not worried about that. I am more worried about my team when it comes to checking the gate, lighting and studio disapline. I might have to call in some favors to make this work.
 
gwertheim said:
I have profs that have used RED. I am not worried about that. I am more worried about my team when it comes to checking the gate, lighting and studio disapline. I might have to call in some favors to make this work.
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Dude, Team play is what this is all about.... :matrix:
 
I know that it is one of the most important things on set, but others i will have to trust have never been on an active set before
 
You will have to trust your DP and your Focus puller and your Data wrangler and your Hard Drives and your post production facillity/or master monitor and so on...

You will have to be much more picky with RED than with 16mm (don't forget our grand dad did shoot on 16mm with bollex and the pictures where and still are great) to do it properly on RED you will have to have goooood professionals.

Put your thoughts on selecting your team first and then choose the right medium.

Patrick

PS: As technology can change every day, teaming up a great crew is a time life "benefit"
 
As technology can change every day, teaming up a great crew is a time life "benefit"


Didn't think about it that way.

Thanks for the tip
 
Hey man, I just sent you a pm, but I have a red for rent to students in Toronto. I would be more than happy to show you the camera and how it works to help you decide.
Let me know.
redshorts@rocketmail.com
ben.
 
I'd have shot 16mm.
REDs are plentyfull, and you won't have the option of choice in a quite near future.

NOT implying "film is dead", just that it will become harder to get budgets for film.

Gunleik
 
!6mm... choice of film stocks, grain structure and latitude.

RED... clean images, easy workflow and instant fedback without the need for a Tap and VTR.

Most importantly what does the story call for... what medium is best for that story.
 
if the story doesn't dictate the medium then shoot film.....RED will be around for quite a long time, film on the other hand will become less of an option and it is great opportunity to experience while you have the chance.

I am a bit curious as to your past experience. have you shot film before? what type of digital/HD have you shot?

there have been a few posts that say some misleading things...such as the RED easy workflow, etc.....if you have time and experience it is "easier" than before, but saying RED is easier than film is not completely true....it is different, that is all is it...

I think the film workflow is also easy, although different.....

Does your DP have film experience? you said he's not picky but I have to admit that might also mean he is not as learned in the ways of film vs. digital acquisition.


BTW...on my website you can see my latest RED ONE spot....NIKE "HERE I AM" I have two more in post production now.

good luck,

Eric
 
Shoot 16mm. Especially if the school is picking up the tab. Just make sure you get a transfer to at least HDCAM SR. No point in degrading the quality by going SD.

There will be plenty of digital later. Part of shooting film is trusting that what you have is good, and the excitement of not knowing exactly what you got. It's like x-mas when that film comes back from the lab. You're in school now, they're paying the fees... you can mess up now with your film without too much consequence. Use this 16mm shoot as a learning experience. My $.02 ;-)
 
no i think they mean film's becoming more expensive. studios might not want to bother with film after a while purely because of the cost.
 
Really?

My understanding is that at the studio level, digital can be more expensive than film or at least the same price. Film costs are a small in comparison to numerous other costs on a studio film.

I could produce 30: spots shot on 35mm film cheaper than to do it "the right way" with the RED or similar, digitally. Then of course every project is different and I could see film costs being burdensome if you needed many hours of footage- like on an indie feature or doc.

Anyways, If It were me in film school- I would shoot a project on film!
 
hunterrichards said:
I could produce 30: spots shot on 35mm film cheaper than to do it "the right way" with the RED or similar, digitally. !
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Hi,

That is often my experiance too. Film Processing & telecine grading grading can be quicker than converting files too

Stephen
 
I think working with a crew you can trust is a good start. I remember what it was like being a student though. In retrospect it wasn't my crews that were a problem it was my lack of faith in the people I was working with. I can understand where you are coming from. Although don't underestimate the shooting on the RED, especially the post workflow.

I was speaking to Tony Breakspear from Kodak a while back, talking about 16mm. He was quick to make the argument that although there might be more upfront costs of shooting on film, the post expense makes it equally expensive in the long run. But hey he works for Kodak! Guess where his bias lies. He brought up RED several times in the conversation, he wasn't ushered into which I quite liked.
 
Here's my take on it...and this is coming from a guy with a bunch of 16 and 35mm gear sitting in an equipment room and wondering what it is going to be worth in the not too distant future...when digital finally has the post thing figured out...(I know it is already figured out...but a lot of the producers of the world don't think so...and sometimes you don't have the time to educate them)

Go for the RED. I think it is the future, whether RED or (gad!..sorry about this...) someone else...just like the digital still world...people still shoot film for it's "Better" image, but they are a very few.

Do you want to shoot a future statement or shoot a history lesson...sorry, that is harsh but I think that film, though still superior to digital in many ways, is really loosing momenturm in our industry...and looking at what you may want to do in your future...via a resume ...I think that learning the new math may open doors more than film as an entry medium.

Yes, learning the fundamentals (of cinematography) via film would be a real learning experience...days later. Immediate feedback of the images is also a real learning experience...I just had my first lesson last week with my newly arrived RED One.

It's a tough question and probably one that goes to the very fundamental heart of this site. Others have very good arguments for film...and I applaud them as I would hope that film hangs around for a while...I personally love the medium...my reel is 99.44% film. There is stuff that you can image on film that will be a long time coming in digital...but we all have to pay attention to the momentum of the industry that pays the rent.


Larry
 
Shoot film now. You can shoot RED any time you want later.
 
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