Red Time-lapse For flicker-free timelapse?

[Santos Ramos]

Quick question about time-lapse

Do I need to treat my red camera like my canon camera and canon lenses for flicker-free timelapse?
Do I need to unlock the lens to keep the aperture locked to not get the flicker problem?

Thanks for the help!

 

[Todd T]

I shoot timelapse quite a bit (Scarlet, Canon lenses) using the Exposure Assist feature.

One big advantage is being that you end up with the same type of footage and workflow as motion, no extra steps to onvert thousands of JPGs into video.

What type of flicker are you trying to compensate for? (e.g. Passing clouds, car headlights, People in dark or light clothing passing by)

If you look in the "Exposure Assist" menu you can set the reaction time for changes to exposure levels (slow, medium, or fast) to avoid or greatly reduce "flickering"

 

[Björn Benckert]

No you dont get the normal still camera iris issues when using canon lenses and epic as it does not pull iris on every frame like the still camera does. So shoot away, and as Todd says, it´s really nice to be able to hit play as soon as you are done shooting.

Another trick is to use 360 shutter. then you can sum frames in post to get longer exposure times than you actually shot. But be carefull with black shading correctly for long exposures...I had some thing looking like dead pixels in the blacks when shooting dragon at 1fps and 360 shutter... the camera simply has a problem handling those exposure times but 2 or 3 fps or above and 360 shutter is really nice base for timelapse.

 

[D Fuller]

Quick question about time-lapse

Do I need to treat my red camera like my canon camera and canon lenses for flicker-free timelapse?
Do I need to unlock the lens to keep the aperture locked to not get the flicker problem?

Thanks for the help!

No. Because Red doesn't open the aperture between exposures.

But Todd's advice above is good. Check it out.

 

[Stacey Spears]

I shoot timelapse quite a bit (Scarlet, Canon lenses) using the Exposure Assist feature.

Can you say more about using the exposure assist? I have seen the feature but have never used it.

Another trick is to use 360 shutter. then you can sum frames in post to get longer exposure times than you actually shot

You can also do that in camera. In one of the modes this results in better compression because you have removed noise from the image.

 

[Santos Ramos]

Thanks to all for the quick replies!


Before I ask the next questions please view some of my work bellow!
I edited the video really quick today to show it here!

I’m still new to the red camera and I will have to learn about the Exposure Assist Menu.


The 360 shutter got me confused with the time-lapse! I will have to play with the camera tomorrow.


I usually shoot with the 5D at 1-2 fps.


Thanks!

 

[Todd T]

it is fairly straight forward and similar to autofocus.

You can enable it for one shot, recording, or preview & record

There is an Ev shift slider to adjust the exposure offset to your preference

There is a setting to allow the camera to freely select values or to an assigned list.

You also have the option to lock out aperture or shutter speed

Here is short example going from sunlight to night.

I have enabled frame summing ( 4 frames ) and FPS is set to 1 frame every two seconds

In bright light you can see the moving objects have 4 distinct images and as the scene darkens, the shutter approaches 360 degrees to a continuous motion blur.

After that, the steps in aperture become more apparent.

 

[Ian D]

Hi Guys,
I have been using a good bit of time-lapse lately, normally 2fps 360 shutter with painfully slow pans that work out most of the time. Would some mind explaining what frame summing in post is ? Tried a bit lamely to find out via interweb, but not sure what it does. Like said before, black balance is crucial, but quite easy with the calibration storing feature.

Kind Regards
Ian

 

[Todd T]

Frame summing and frame averaging allow the camera to work with 2 to 16 buffered frames to effectively gat greater exposure capability , longer exposure times, or some combination of the two.

You can simulate a 16 second exposure by setting frame processing to 16, setting the fps to 1/16.00 and shutter to 360 to get long streaking headlights or to make pedestrians and other transient objects disappear.

Summing or averaging affect the how each individual frame affects the overall composition, summing gives each frame equal weight, and averaging reduces the impact of any differences between the frames.

 

[steve green]

I shoot lots of DSLR time lapse and own two Dragons. I have been trying for years to understand the cryptic frame summing/frame averaging of the Epic menu. I would love for an easy to understand explanation on how to shoot one frame every 5 seconds, with a 4 second exposure (or similar), and playback the time lapse shot in camera without any needed post prod. process. This exposure assist would be an even bigger bonus as that really looks helpful.

 

[Daniel Kelly Brown]

I shoot lots of DSLR time lapse and own two Dragons. I have been trying for years to understand the cryptic frame summing/frame averaging of the Epic menu. I would love for an easy to understand explanation on how to shoot one frame every 5 seconds, with a 4 second exposure (or similar), and playback the time lapse shot in camera without any needed post prod. process. This exposure assist would be an even bigger bonus as that really looks helpful.

Same here, been shooting DSLR time lapse for years, would love a more solid understanding of frame summing. I can't seem to black shade properly for it. I asked David Battistella how he went about black shade for frame summing and he replied with the below. I yet to try it because camera went for the Dragon upgrade. I will be shooting a bunch of time lapse on dragon in the coming weeks and will be sure to report back here with my findings. Also, I could be doing it wrong, but I can seem to preview what the frame summed shot will look like before hitting record. Perhaps thats normal, but sure would be nice to somehow have a frame summing preview in future red cameras.

I am interested in HDRX for perhaps helping with night/day day/night transitions, I think with a ramp of the levels it could produce something unique, although not sure thats possible in red cine x.

"The thing to do is get the camera up to temperature and set the number of frames you want to sum and the shutter speed. You can sum or average 2,4,8,16 frames representing 4,8,16,32 seconds to expose, sum/average, and write the frame.
When end you have the camera to temp and the summing/averaging rate and shutter selected, just go ahead and do a regular blackshading calibration.
battistella"

Edit: for adding thoughts on preview with frame summing.

Beautiful shots btw Santos!

 

[Todd T]

I shoot lots of DSLR time lapse and own two Dragons. I have been trying for years to understand the cryptic frame summing/frame averaging of the Epic menu. I would love for an easy to understand explanation on how to shoot one frame every 5 seconds, with a 4 second exposure (or similar), and playback the time lapse shot in camera without any needed post prod. process. This exposure assist would be an even bigger bonus as that really looks helpful.

Unfortunately the interval has to be a multiple of the exposure time. A 4 second exposure would have intervals of 4, 8, 12, etc.

1) Got to Menu>Settings>Recording>Mode
2)Set Recording mode to Interval Timelapse; Check Limit Recording to -> 1 Frame; Timer settings -> set the number of frames you want to record and the interval to 8 seconds
3) Go to the Frame processing tab; Set Processing mode to Frame Summing, 4 frames.
4) Back to the main screen and set frame rate to 1/4.00 fps

Then hit record see what happens....

 

[steve green]

Unfortunately the interval has to be a multiple of the exposure time. A 4 second exposure would have intervals of 4, 8, 12, etc.

1) Got to Menu>Settings>Recording>Mode
2)Set Recording mode to Interval Timelapse; Check Limit Recording to -> 1 Frame; Timer settings -> set the number of frames you want to record and the interval to 8 seconds
3) Go to the Frame processing tab; Set Processing mode to Frame Summing, 4 frames.
4) Back to the main screen and set frame rate to 1/4.00 fps

Then hit record see what happens....

Todd,
All sound good except 4) frame rate to 1/4.00 fps? What is this? With these setting what is the interval and the exposure time? Thanks for trying to explain this to me, I've never been able to understand. I'll try it in the morning.......

 

[Todd T]

Todd,
All sound good except 4) frame rate to 1/4.00 fps? What is this? With these setting what is the interval and the exposure time? Thanks for trying to explain this to me, I've never been able to understand. I'll try it in the morning.......

Once you go longer that one second per frame the the nomenclature becomes inverted; Frames per second ( or Frames/Second) to seconds per frames (Second/Frame).

Think of it like measuring speed, driving a car you would measure fuel consumption in miles per gallon, operating heavy construction equipment you would measure gallons per mile.

In my example 1/4.00 means 1 frame per 4 seconds.

 

[steve green]

Once you go longer that one second per frame the the nomenclature becomes inverted; Frames per second ( or Frames/Second) to seconds per frames (Second/Frame).

Think of it like measuring speed, driving a car you would measure fuel consumption in miles per gallon, if you operating heavy construction equipment you would measure gallons per mile.

In my example 1/4.00 means 1 frame per 4 seconds.

Nice explanation, I get it. I did a little test and the movement doesn't seem to blur as it does on the DSLR. Still each frame, while not perfectly sharp, doesn't have the same long exposure look of the 5D.

 

[Todd T]

Nice explanation, I get it. I did a little test and the movement doesn't seem to blur as it does on the DSLR. Still each frame, while not perfectly sharp, doesn't have the same long exposure look of the 5D.

What were your settings? The shutter must be 360 degrees for this effect.
I think I shot 16 second frames in this video( go to 1:38)
http://vimeo.com/80523572

 

[steve green]

Yes that traffic scene is the look I'd like to achieve with the Dragon. When I did the test I didn't use 360 degree shutter, oversight on my part. I'll try again. What were all the the settings to get the 16 sec. exposure?

 

[Todd T]

Same as above except:
Frame processing -> 16 frames
FPS 1/16.00
Shutter 360 degrees

 

[Santos Ramos]

Thanks Björn Benckert!

You are talking about using the 360 (1/24) shutter only if I do long exposure shot at night?
I don't have to use the 360 all the time, day and night? Is the frame sum done with redline-X?

Thanks for the help!

No you dont get the normal still camera iris issues when using canon lenses and epic as it does not pull iris on every frame like the still camera does. So shoot away, and as Todd says, it´s really nice to be able to hit play as soon as you are done shooting.

Another trick is to use 360 shutter. then you can sum frames in post to get longer exposure times than you actually shot. But be carefull with black shading correctly for long exposures...I had some thing looking like dead pixels in the blacks when shooting dragon at 1fps and 360 shutter... the camera simply has a problem handling those exposure times but 2 or 3 fps or above and 360 shutter is really nice base for timelapse.

 

[Stacey Spears]

Is the frame sum done with redline-X?

It's done in camera. You have frame summing and frame averaging as options.