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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red sue Sony

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Anyone remember that Flame that sony launched that was on the market only for a couple of weeks...

It was quite odd actually, Back then Sony people all of a sudden started to ask questions at the Autodesk forum called "flame_news". These guys even started a "wishlist for extra features in the new flame". Then after a year or so they showed up at nab with a system based on a stack of 6 playstation graphics boards that was down to little details in the GUI a carbon copy of the current autodesk flame, and it even had some improvements. They actually sold a couple of systems before the Autodesk lawers just shut them down.

To me it's really strange that such a big company like Sony has that sort of manor and just goes ahead and try to steal IP like that, especially from such a large player like Autodesk.
 
William Albertini said:
Oh, I am very sure that RED knows who they are playing with.
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As of 2011 Sony owned 2265 patents in the US (ranked #7 ahead of Apple, GE, etc), I don't thnk it's a smart move to get into patent wars with Sony, but we will see ....
 
How do you know the F55 is reliable? How many months have you used one?

I used a 1 Scarlet for a 113 day shoot, no crashes, no problems, ten hour days. Its still running now with over 1,000 hours just fine, total work horse. I know the R1 might of has issues at times when it first came out, but for me 0 issues on DSMC yet.

Also I bet had you checked with your rep he would of known about the issue and told you not to get the 48gb mags. I have had nothing but great help from my rep and others. I am sorry your experience hasn't been as excellent as mine. If reliability is key hire a good DIT and it doesn't matter what camera you shoot, he/she will get you home on time with the footage

Lau Ho Ming said:
I own both Red and Sony camera. I used Red One MX and Red Epic and many many many Sony cameras from consumer grade to professional broadcast camera. From the perspective of end user, I'd not want to see Sony lose and have all their cameras destroyed(Which I don't think will happen anyway). Red camera have some very fatal weaknesses compared to their competitors which is stability, reliability and their customer service. I've seen Red Epic system crash on set. I've seen Red footage corrupted/giving some green stripe etc.... And my Red One MX hanged twice and giving playback codec error on set on a very important bank corporate video shooting which made me feel quite disppointed. And their customer service is inferior compared to others at least from my experience. My general overall impression of Red company is...arrogant. They spent all the resource to develop "new technologies" and trying to make everyone believe that their "new technologies" are needed. And they don't care about little things like satisfying the customers basic needs e.g. Red still claiming the 48GB SSD works with Red One on their online store after almost 3 months. The firmware upgrade to activate the 48GB for Red One is still not here. They didn't even warn the buyer and they don't bother just correct the online store claiming the 48GB is not working for Red One yet. I really really don't feel they care about this issue at all. But anyway I've already gone through a lot of troubles send my 4x48gb ssd back from HK to USA and pay more to re-buy the 64GB SSD. I'm 100% disappointed. They don't pay attention to little details like these they don't fulfill the basic needs of small customers like us they spent all the effort to build a brand image of "I'm the King of digital cinema I'm the first one who mass produce 6K camera with N stops DR while everyone still live in the 1080P world LMAO!". But small customers who couldn't even effort a Scarlet like us may be able to purchase dozens of future Epic 12K 30 stops DR camera in the future. But by that time we may already 100% disappointed with Red company just because they didn't deal with the 48GB SSD issue that day. So IMO before Red spent all the effort and resource on developing "new technologies" and suing everyone. They should deal with the 48GB SSD not working with Red One issue first.

Yes Red keep pushing out new technology to consumer/prosumer market but they always push it out before it is mature and stable. That is what I observed. If I want to make some short film and video to impress everyone. I may choose to use the Red camera. But if I need to pick a camera to a professional mission critical job. I may prefer a F55 or Alexa. The reliability issue is the top priority to deal with in my opinion. Otherwise Red will never win industrial giant like Arri, Sony and Canon...6K and compressed Raw and 18 stops DR is good to have but in fact it is not needed. Tell me how will I be able to afford the next Red camera if I keep losing money and jobs because my camera die on set/footage corrupt etc...
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Red's aggression towards the launch of sony's new cameras has convinced me to follow through with a f55 purchase. They seem to be worried that the f55 is about to steal their thunder. Sony's initial announcement was met with a price drop from red, their pricing announcement was met with a jpeg from the new sensor and now the F's release is met with a lawsuit. If red is that worried, then the f55 must be a good product.
I'll happily use both my epic and a f55, whichever is the best tool for the job.
 
Shane Kelly said:
Red's aggression towards the launch of sony's new cameras has convinced me to follow through with a f55 purchase. They seem to be worried that the f55 is about to steal their thunder. Sony's initial announcement was met with a price drop from red, their pricing announcement was met with a jpeg from the new sensor and now the F's release is met with a lawsuit. If red is that worried, then the f55 must be a good product.
I'll happily use both my epic and a f55, whichever is the best tool for the job.
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Seems redundant. If you own an Epic (or plan on buying an F55 instead), I can't imagine there's a lot of scenarios where having both makes any sense.

I'll put my money on the company that does a much better job at developing companion software, has baked into their business model the motto to never leave customers behind, and sells me a camera that I get to upgrade to the 'new model'. Smarter investment all around. And that's if you ignore all of the other legs up the Epic already has.

Put another way... If the F55 was indeed the better camera (and Sony the better company), I'd be posting the inverse of this on their forums right now.
 
Gary Paul Walker said:
This thread will be shut down faster than a European meat pie factory....
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Show me the Beef....

Err... Horse.

:beatdeadhorse5:

Always wanted to use this

LOL
 
It's times like this I miss the old Jim that would have been posting raw thoughts and musings the day of a lawsuit. :smile:
 
Is it only me that hates sony. I actually think it would be great if Jim kicks their ass. The F:ed me so many times over with their stupid sales people, tape decks, screens and other things so to me some, or a lot of, pain on their side would be just welcome. I like the F65 but I much rather see them wiped out completely than having the option to buy that camera.
 
Rob Anderson said:
Seems redundant. If you own an Epic (or plan on buying an F55 instead), I can't imagine there's a lot of scenarios where having both makes any sense.

I'll put my money on the company that does a much better job at developing companion software, has baked into their business model the motto to never leave customers behind, and sells me a camera that I get to upgrade to the 'new model'. Smarter investment all around. And that's if you ignore all of the other legs up the Epic already has.

Put another way... If the F55 was indeed the better camera (and Sony the better company), I'd be posting the inverse of this on their forums right now.
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I'll own it for rental as I can see it becoming a very popular camera, just like the Alexa. I'm not saying that the f55 is a "better" camera, just that it will be a popular one. It's a business decision, that's all.
I love my Epic, don't get me wrong, I shoot practically everything on it, I'm on my 10th job of 2013 with it. However, the Alexa kills it in rentals. I can see the Sony doing the same.
I see myself shooting on the Epic for the foreseeable future but I have to look at the way the market moves as well.
 
Gary Paul Walker said:
This thread will be shut down faster than a European meat pie factory....
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I'm surprised that it has lasted this long. I applaud the moderators for allowing a discussion.
 
I read an interview with Ted from South by Southwest in Texas last year and he said Red was waiting for competitors to catch up in the nidustry they now dominate.


So maybe Sony is catching up.

Anyhow patent litigation takes years and years and years.
 
Another possibility is that Red is having trouble with their Dragon sensor program and they dont want Sony to have a product on the market that is on par, or perhaps even superior to their own

Red is still a new brand to alot of people... and with other companies entering the 4k market it's going to get though for Red.
 
Roger Valdes said:
Another possibility is that Red is having trouble with their Dragon sensor program and they dont want Sony to have a product on the market that is on par, or perhaps even superior to their own

...
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I don't know... that Dragon picture they posted looked pretty trouble free to me. '-)
 
I think this is a complicated issue, and most of us don't really know the details of this case. We need to have patience and see how this plays out.
 
Björn Benckert said:
Is it only me that hates sony. I actually think it would be great if Jim kicks their ass. The F:ed me so many times over with their stupid sales people, tape decks, screens and other things so to me some, or a lot of, pain on their side would be just welcome. I like the F65 but I much rather see them wiped out completely than having the option to buy that camera.
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Im with ya buddy...
 
If RED thinks these cameras will hurt their business then they must be good cameras. Ironically we purchased an F5 yesterday and will see if they are available on the 23rd. They have already been delivered in Canada.

It hurts everybody the less competition out there, we all know how this goes. Surprised at the comments.
 
Not sure where all the hate towards Sony comes from... sure, they aint perfect. But neither is RED
sony cameras never failed on me. I can't say the same for my Red One or the many Epics i have worked with.
 
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