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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED-specific motion control features?

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Ralph Oshiro

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I know it's been discussed here somewhere before, but I recall someone at RED mentioning something about special features which may be available in RED, specifically for motion control applications. I got to hang out with some pretty cool motion control guys today on a 35mm musicvideo set, and offered to demo my RED ONE for them when I get it. What can I tell them about how RED can complement their production and/or workflow, and possibly enhance their competitiveness in the market for motion control applications using RED?
 
Ralph Oshiro said:
What can I tell them about how RED can complement their production and/or workflow, and possibly enhance their competitiveness in the market for motion control applications using RED?
Click to expand...

Hi Ralph,

Probably very little, most MOCO's have a Mitchell that's thrown in in the deal! As MOCO is often effects based, it can be a very slow and boring process, where very little film is actually shot. On my last MOCO shoot I used one 400' roll of film in 3 days!

If you saw the latest James Bond, my footage was part of an Omega commercial that showed before the film.

Stephen

Edit Out of interest if one shoots a 3 frame per second exposure with a Red, do you gain 3 stops as in Film?
 
I'm pretty sure I read that the RED can be controlled with software from a computer via a wireless adapter in an SD card slot. You could use the software to program RED to ramp up/down fps. while it is on the MoCo rig. Most of the control is done via the MoCo rig though. You will also need a remote follow focus system. I am hoping withing the next couple years there will be cheaper MoCo rigs than what is currently available. I got an awsome demo DVD from Mark Roberts Motion Control Ltd. a few months ago. Pretty cool stuff. There are some clips available on the website.

http://www.mrmoco.com

Anyone know how much these rigs cost? I'm afraid to ask....
 
Curran Giddens said:
I'm pretty sure I read that the RED can be controlled with software from a computer via a wireless adapter in an SD card slot. You could use the software to program RED to ramp up/down fps. while it is on the MoCo rig. Most of the control is done via the MoCo rig though. You will also need a remote follow focus system. I am hoping withing the next couple years there will be cheaper MoCo rigs than what is currently available. I got an awsome demo DVD from Mark Roberts Motion Control Ltd. a few months ago. Pretty cool stuff. There are some clips available on the website.

http://www.mrmoco.com

Anyone know how much these rigs cost? I'm afraid to ask....
Click to expand...

Hi,

About $500,000 + depending on spec. It's a very small market 1 or 2 rigs a year.

Stephen
 
If you're comping CG elements motion tracking software is a better bet these days. If you're comping 2 or more live elements... uh... don't move the camera. Heh.

(actually - couldn't you move the camera on the BG plate, track that and apply the track to other live elements shot with a locked off camera?)
 
joelnet said:
If you're comping CG elements motion tracking software is a better bet these days. If you're comping 2 or more live elements... uh... don't move the camera. Heh.

(actually - couldn't you move the camera on the BG plate, track that and apply the track to other live elements shot with a locked off camera?)
Click to expand...

Hi,

Sometimes shooting for real and compositing multi-passes looks better than CG, but I am biased I prefer the look of film to CG!

Stephen
 
Curran Giddens said:
I'm pretty sure I read that the RED can be controlled with software from a computer via a wireless adapter in an SD card slot. You could use the software to program RED to ramp up/down fps. while it is on the MoCo rig. Most of the control is done via the MoCo rig though. You will also need a remote follow focus system. I am hoping withing the next couple years there will be cheaper MoCo rigs than what is currently available. I got an awsome demo DVD from Mark Roberts Motion Control Ltd. a few months ago. Pretty cool stuff. There are some clips available on the website.

http://www.mrmoco.com

Anyone know how much these rigs cost? I'm afraid to ask....
Click to expand...


The ulti head at Mrco runs 130,000 when all is said and done. You also have to fly to london to there main HQ and learn how to use the head and software which you also have to pay for.
 
Not to self promote but: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=775118&postcount=6

Things are changing in the industry, the old way of doing things is out. Now you can get beautiful 4K footage for the price of a lexus and moco for the cost of a corolla :)

BTW.. We're going to have a NAB special price ... $10,750. We will be taking pre-orders for July 4th delivery date.

-Curt
 
JVB said:
The ulti head at Mrco runs 130,000 when all is said and done. You also have to fly to london to there main HQ and learn how to use the head and software which you also have to pay for.
Click to expand...

Hi,

The Ulti Head is just a pan & tilt head, I guess that includes zoom & focus motors, flair software, PC & electronics. MRMC is based in East Grinstead, Sussex. I know that software well.

FWIW I just sold my Mitchell to MRMC!

Stephen
 
CVB said:
Not to self promote but: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=775118&postcount=6

Things are changing in the industry, the old way of doing things is out. Now you can get beautiful 4K footage for the price of a lexus and moco for the cost of a corolla :)

BTW.. We're going to have a NAB special price ... $10,750. We will be taking pre-orders for July 4th delivery date.

-Curt
Click to expand...

Hi Curt,

That is just a pan/tilt head as far as I can see, hardly a full blown Motion Control Rig like a Milo.

Stephen
 
CVB said:
Not to self promote but: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=775118&postcount=6

Things are changing in the industry, the old way of doing things is out. Now you can get beautiful 4K footage for the price of a lexus and moco for the cost of a corolla :)

BTW.. We're going to have a NAB special price ... $10,750. We will be taking pre-orders for July 4th delivery date.

-Curt
Click to expand...

It would probably help if you guys had some tutorials online showing shots with your unit that you couldn't get without motion control.
 
Baby steps Stephen.. :) You can do quite a bit with pan and tilt. We have external axis control as well so the system can be expanded to include dolly. When we decide to tackle the full 6 DOF jib I can guarantee that it will be a fraction of Milos $500K? pricetag.

Joel:
Heres a couple simple shots we did with our HD-100U, the exposure is a bit off but you can get the point...
http://viewfactorstudios.com/trucks.mov (we only used one truck for this shot)
http://viewfactorstudios.com/timelapse.mov

We will have much more info up once NAB rolls around.
 
CVB said:
Baby steps Stephen.. :) You can do quite a bit with pan and tilt. We have external axis control as well so the system can be expanded to include dolly. When we decide to tackle the full 6 DOF jib I can guarantee that it will be a fraction of Milos $500K? pricetag.

Joel:
Heres a couple simple shots we did with our HD-100U, the exposure is a bit off but you can get the point...
http://viewfactorstudios.com/trucks.mov (we only used one truck for this shot)
http://viewfactorstudios.com/timelapse.mov

We will have much more info up once NAB rolls around.
Click to expand...

Hi,

MRMC don't have a pricelist, they give you a quote...... It always ends up far bigger than the initial indication!

I know one of the studios spent 1,000,000 designing their own electronics, ended up buying a Kuper control card for $3,500!

Does your system drive a film camera, focus, capping shutter etc?

Stephen
 
We've angled our system towards the digital realm, so we haven't put much time into driving film camera shutter. We have digital Inputs and Outputs to trigger any camera that can accept a trigger pulse (which I'm fairly certain RED will).
We also have a serial output that can interface to almost anything.
 
Hey Curt,

Can the Mirus head be driven manually via a pan bar if needed? Perhaps even recording the motion for duplication? How large a payload can it handle?
 
Jeff.. yes. Its going to be a record and repeat system at shipping time then firmware upgrades will be released every couple months to add functionality. The pan/tilt bar is included in the price and it allows you to move the head just like a normal tripod head. The coolest part with the record and repeat is that its a two button operation .. press a button... do your move.. press play. Easy. No crazy software to install and no computer necessary (unless you want to go to advanced mode - there is a full web-based gui for adjusting parameters, time lapse, and tweaking data etc. )

The current capacity is 35 pounds but it the harmonic drives can be geared to handle up to 65 pounds. Hopefully the full red system will come in under 35 lbs so we can get the highest speed possible out of the system.

We're really excited to get this out in the market and see peoples reactions to the design.
 
Awesome Curt. ...Now I have one more toy to budget for. It will probably have to come sometime down the road after my RED though. But hey, you never know.. :)
 
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