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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red should scrap all these brains.

L

Lars Wikstrom

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Red should really only offer 2 or 3 models. I was looking again at all the specs of all the brains and just started to laugh and how goofy it was. They should simply offer a Scarlet 4K with speeds up to 150 FPS in all modes and all lens mounts. Then the 9K Epic with speeds up to what ever the fastest they can do.

All this nickel and dime'n reminds me of selecting options when you are buying a car. By offering 1 Scarlet with what people are looking for is better then many brains that only have a part of what they want or little difference between them. Offer it at a good price and people will flock to buy it and abandon their current technology. 4K Scarlet will be fine for 90% that want to shoot and do film transfers. 9K Epic is for the other 10% that needs the extremes of high res and higher speeds.

Less Brains = Faster Production. Give this new line of cameras the KISS approach (Keep It Simple Stupid) : ) How I live my life.

-Lars
 
And ya know what? Just stop making cameras altogether while your at it. Because obviously you can't do anything right.

Seriously guys. Let them do their own thing. I don't think they need business advice from EVERYBODY else.
 
Sorry, Lars: the people have spoken ...
shaun_of_the_dead_zombies.gif

BRAINS!!!​
 
They just want to be able to reach out their product to as many customers are possible. By offering a huge variety, they will be able to sell more and do better. If you think that by doing this, they are slowing down their production efficiency, I would say that is not true since ideally, the brains are all centered around three different sensors. I wont think much of it as so many brains, but just three different sensors.
 
Lars Wikstrom said:
Red should really only offer 2 or 3 models.
Click to expand...

I don't think you can classify and categorized filmmaker in only 2 or 3 kinds, not to mention the buying power. Even in one movie sometimes it requires several type of cameras for all those various shots.

So let the Master do the work, you buy what you can afford.



José
 
Well, in order to be able to produce at the appropriate price points they need to make different sensors and sizes. By their nature yields increase with smaller sensor sizes. A 4k Scarlet wouldn't be profitable at $2500. And anyway, there are only going to be 2 sensor architectures so once each architecture is taped out, production is not far off, regardless of the size of the implementation of the design.
 
You probably wont get much support for challenging RED's business decisions at REDuser (just sayin...) But I am also a person who believes simple is better for certain things. I think your partly right, I might be one of the people here that will support you. I think when people are offered too many options they become confused or discouraged and no matter how good the product is they will turn to the company offering the easiest most clear option.
I think RED's choice to offer us everything that can be offered is an amazing thing to do. Maybe a little too good. I'd rather have more choices from RED than just one or two, but that's mostly because I feel I understand and connect with this company different than other major companies. Call it faith if you want.
RED ultimately succeeding with their new product line is more important to me than them doing something risky that might benefit us but hurt them as well which in turn will hurt us too (I've heard people worry about this. It's something I seriously doubt Jim is overlooking). God forbid if RED goes under because their products sold poorly. People who quickly invested wont get needed support from a dead company. This especially true for Scarlet since RED is depending on mass purchases in order to sell at reasonable prices; this on top of possibly worsening worldwide economic issues). This is defiantly an existing mind-set for first time RED buyers who are unsure about the company's stability since its still relatively new (plus they "don't know what their doing" = )
Just to wrap this up, I confidently believe in Jim knowing his way around creating a successful business, most surly better than we can see. And I wouldn't even THINK of giving any business advice to an already successful billionaire who has repeatedly stated if you don't like the way we do things go start your own business. And and above all what Jim really wants from us is innovative ideas and suggestions to build better cameras, not how how to do things and why it might fail (not that I think that's exactly what you were saying).
 
Having the different brains are very important to the system, as different people want different sensor sizes, and larger sensors are more expensive, and certian mounts will only work on certain sensor sizes.
 
Interesting replies. I see the point that many of you have but I still believe all the cameras are to similar in there offerings and I found myself picking different thing with all the cameras to get what I wanted as the perfect camera for me. I know I am not alone in this by reading other posts here.

Jim and his team of super heroes are truly brilliant and have broken the stereo types of film creation. Making the tools that artists use to create their film and video projects better and cheaper. I also believe, like many business, Red filters through the feedback of there users and potential users to improve the products.

I would think if RED produced the Scarlet at 4K capable of 120 FPS at 4K, Nikon & Canon mounts with the FF35/S35 sensor it would cover the majority of you film making artists out there, including me.

Right now, and this applies to me only, selecting a Scarlet brain in it's current forms I am sacrificing something I need/want that is in the next level up. The only thing the Epic has to offer me is the 125 FPS at 4K, ill even take that in 3K at that speed.

Cheers!

-Lars
 
Lars Wikstrom said:
I would think if RED produced the Scarlet at 4K capable of 120 FPS at 4K, Nikon & Canon mounts with the FF35/S35 sensor it would cover the majority of you film making artists out there, including me.
Click to expand...

I disagree. I run into this problem all the time explaining the Scarlet and EPIC cameras to clients. People have to stop thinking of Scarlet and EPIC as completely different cameras. Versions of EPIC and Scarlet share the same sensor but the main difference is that EPIC has more expensive hardware in the brain that can do high speed and almost unlimited frame rate and scaling options.

The camera you describe EXISTS! It is called the S35 EPIC. It does 125 FPS at 4k. Because of the hardware required to do that framerate it also costs $28k. That is the main difference between EPICs and Scarlets: framerate. As Jim stated, framerates cost money.

That is why the multiple brains path is brilliant. They can mass produce the sensors and modules and sell versions with less hardware (Scarlets) for a fraction of the price. The S35 Scarlet is 1/7th the price of the S35 EPIC and the main difference is framerate.

When you say you wished RED would make only make a 4k 120 FPS Scarlet I assume you are hoping the price would stay in the Scarlet range. Jim has stated those FPS are the reason for way higher price of the EPICs.

The reason I like the idea of the multiple brains is that we get brains in the $2,500 - $9,750 range. This opens RED up to a whole slough of new customers and clients for us.
 
I agree with that frame rate costs money but my problem is that I need "high end" cameras for my line of work. So I have to get the Epic and spend more money on it then the Scarlet.

BUT I will fight against rental of the Scarlet since production most of the time don't need high frame rates and the Scarlet is then going to be good enough for them.

Hopefully this will not become a problem since it will be a distinctive difference between the 2 models, but right now that seems a little worrying.

I also agree that there is to many choices. Life would have been so much easier if it was a little less. I wonder what they're showing us in 2010 hahaha.
 
The problem is they have to figure out how to make the first one. Forget about two, three, a hundred or a thousand versions. They have to create one that works first. That is the bottom line. When that first one is gonna happen? Who knows.
 
Lars Wikstrom said:
I would think if RED produced the Scarlet at 4K capable of 120 FPS at 4K, Nikon & Canon mounts with the FF35/S35 sensor it would cover the majority of you film making artists out there, including me.
Click to expand...

But not me. I don't want no S35 Sensor. I want a 2/3" :gun:
 
Hi HMP,

I fully agree what you say. Choice is good.

But, a B4 lens without a converter would not work - even on a 2/3 Scarlet. HD B4 lenses are made for 2/3 3CCD prism systems which the Scarlet won't have. It's going to be a single sensor desing like 16mm film cameras. Red is offering already a B4 converter in their shop. So what you want is a PL-mount 2/3 Scarlet and a B4 converter, I guess.

Hans
 
bobaandy said:
And ya know what? Just stop making cameras altogether while your at it. Because obviously you can't do anything right.

Seriously guys. Let them do their own thing. I don't think they need business advice from EVERYBODY else.
Click to expand...

Yeah, what do customers know.. er.. hang on..
 
This is my first post so a quick hello to everyone... now on to the subject...

I am very happy they are making so many different brains. For myself and our team in Lycanthropy Pictures, it give us a chance to expand our future capabilities. We've been around a couple years now with 1 short under our belt shot on an XL2. Our goal is to keep making movies better than the one before it. With that, having better equipement. We're going to upgrade our capabilities to the Scarlet 2/3 as soon as it's out and we can get it. Knowing that we can upgrade our brain in the rig in the future without having to replace everything is great and cost effective. So our equipement can grow in steps as we do.

Think about it... just 10 years ago it wasn't possible for us indies to make a movie that equals in picture quality with a major Hollywood studio movie without cameras that cost as much as a high end Mercedes or even more, however now, with the whole Scarlet line, it is finally possible and with so many models to choose from, we're no longer limited by money... only talent. :P
 
Justin - Interesting points on the Epic vs. Scarlet and seeing them as different cameras. I understand there are going to be major technical differences between the cameras which is why the different price ranges. You are correct when you say that I am wanting these features not at the $28K range since there is a camera that has all this but at a cost that is way to high, in my opinion.

I personally would trade larger frame size for faster speeds if it is possible. You are not going to see a difference transferring an image to 35mm film that was shot at 4K vs. 9K. But again like you pointed out Epic and Scarlets are very different technology, thanks.

HMP - It's unfortunate that you interpret my post as "Complaining, knocking, snobby and bashing", when it was not. These forums are designed for people to learn, share and express ideas that will help them, which is what I did. Justin's post was very informative without the need to go negative and demeaning.

I think my point is, in the end there are only a few different ways people will see the out come of our work. It will be on the big screen projected digitally or film transfer. On TV HD or SD or some web or portable player format. Just like there are 100's of different cars on the road there are still only a few fuel sources.

Again thanks for the POSITIVE input and explanations. I would love to hear what reasons people would have to select one brain over another for there work flow.

Thanks!

-Lars
 
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