Red shoot today

[Greg M]

I understand your pain rgd...I think the issue here is that the owner of the camera should not be renting it out. He knew this was a beta version, this is an opportunity to work out workflow issues and get familiar with the camera. Personally I wont be renting mine for awhile, at least until I am 100% confident that there wont be any issues for the poor guy using it.

We are going to take advantage of our advance time with the camera to create a post workflow and master the camera...it wont be going out on rentals anytime soon.

Sorry you had issues.

 

[Mark Thorpe]

The importance of BOOTCAMP!

The importance of BOOTCAMP!

I think this just goes to prove one thing. RED is a new beast, a beast that deserves the right of a new approach. Sure there's gonna be teething problems. I believe RED to be on the case. Personally I wouldn't air my issues with the cam in public. Why? We are being watched by the World guys. Look at the reactionary posts in this forum to negative editorials on the whole RED development ride. Plus it's not gonna resolve the issues, the RED team on the other hand?

This whole scenario leans heavily on the need for comprehensive training options for buyers of this camera. Bootcamps, even on an International scale. It's the best way for the company to protect the $$$$'s thus far invested in bringing this product to market. Sure there are some very talented people here, people who have posted amazing footage / stills but for the most part I'll stick my neck out and say that many of us here are gonna be massively overwhelmed by this camera, when we finally get our mitts on it.

Providing training, obviously with a course fee (but not too bloated eh Jim) would at least allow everyone to start off on the right foot.

Just my opinion......

Cheers,
Mark.

 

[Rick Darge]

I agree Mark. People are watching. Like I said before, I love this camera, I love it so much that I put money down for it like everyone else. I believe in what they are doing, it's just, I thought people here would benefit from hearing about some real-world issues. These problems were def camera related but it would never hurt to have some bootcamps in the future. This will be a rough ride for the dinosaurs out there to learn who have never used data-centric camera systems. Also, as a user, I was never told about keeping problems private, this was more of a user report, not a negative rant.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

I think RGD's feedback is extremely valuable if only to let people know that "yes there are at this moment some instabilities. If you need a rock solid 0 failure solution--find something else until the initial bugs are worked out. Otherwise if you can suffer a little grief in order to get some great images--budget the lost time into your schedule now so that you don't get a suprise later."

There's that old saying "the bleeding edge is pretty sharp-watch your fingers."

 

[liquidigital]

I agree Mark. People are watching. Like I said before, I love this camera, I love it so much that I put money down for it like everyone else. I believe in what they are doing, it's just, I thought people here would benefit from hearing about some real-world issues. These problems were def camera related but it would never hurt to have some bootcamps in the future. This will be a rough ride for the dinosaurs out there to learn who have never used data-centric camera systems. Also, as a user, I was never told about keeping problems private, this was more of a user report, not a negative rant.

RGD, you don't owe anybody an explanation/apology or anything. Who bought your camera? You. When someone buys my camera for me, then they can tell me not to post or how to handle a problem. Jesus, this forum is nothing like DVXUser. Too intense. I respect everyone here, but relax. Give this guy a break. I for one, would like to see more of his footage.

 

[Jason Francois]

So, now that camera's are being released we're supposed to change the way we talk about and deal with this camera? Doesn't make any sense to me.

A big part of what RED has become has to do with this community, if I'm not mistaken. I would hate to think that all the many, many months I've invested in being here and spending time and giving feedback is no longer valid because camera's are in the field.

It WOULD be very odd to post a problem with Panaivsion, Arri, etc. on a forum, because those camera's didn't have a large part of their develepment shared online for the world to be involved in. (I'm not sure about Dalsa and Phantom)

Just my spin on people's spin.

J.

The bottom line is, if you had a problem with your Panavision, Arri, Aaton, et al camera (let alone a Dalsa or a Phantom), would you seek solutions by posting online? Or would you contact the company techs or engineers (or even their approved reps or techs) DIRECTLY before posting in a public forum online?

To anyone who has anything at stake in a project in which a specific piece of equipment plays a key role, contacting the manufacturer "DIRECTLY" at the first sign of "extraordinary" adversity is still (and will always be) the best course of action.

Think about it, folks. Not everyone who reads and posts to these forums stay at the Holiday Inn Express, you know? It's always best to get the answers you need straight from the horse's mouth. If you have problems with RED, call RED. They will help you. Nobody else will be in a better position to help you. Nobody.

It only makes sense. Don't it?

My 2¢ worth...

 

[Rick Darge]

would you seek solutions by posting online? Or would you contact the company techs or engineers (or even their approved reps or techs) DIRECTLY before posting in a public forum online?

I wasn't seeking a solution through this thread, just looking to share my experiences with you guys. Peace.

 

[Shawn Nelson]

There's way too much miscommunication going on in this thread.

Us early adopters are a different sort of customer. Not better, just different. It's bittersweet: we get cameras way before most others but we know that we are receiving beta cameras. When I was down at Red Day Jim made it known we were getting Not-Ready-For-Prime-Time cameras and offered to let anyone wait until the cameras were ready. This offer was extended to ALL customers who are to receive cameras before they're "Ready".

AS SUCH, we KNEW going into this that we were the "Right Stuff" to test out cameras. Quite frankly, they probably should have waited another 60 days to release cameras. I am sure as hell glad they didn't!! I like being the first one into the breech .

Therefor, the early adopters need to understand that the majority of the problems we face are irrelevant to the larger Red community because they will be long gone by the time the later cameras are shipped. Too many people in the film industry are, quite frankly, techno stupid. Their information is often many months out of date. I'd hate to be trying to land a rental 9 months from now and have the producer terrified because of a post that happened today.

It's not about dishonesty folks, it's about realizing that we are facing unique problems that don't concern the greater Red community. For instance, this weekend Red #27 had trouble booting. I freaked out, I called Jarred telling him that it was dead, I truly believed it. It turns out that Red #27 is fine, I was just trying to reboot it too early. Not a big deal, now I know and can deal with it and manage expectations. Imagine if I had blasted my concerns over the boards on Sat night? That helps NO ONE.

Ya'll know me, I love this place, and want to help each and every person here as much as possible. My thoughts were not to be "omnious" as I was accused, but rather encouraging people to understand that what Red's #1-#50 are going through is not relevant to the later Reds, so long as Red is notified about it.

 

[Matt Setnes]

Shawn and everyone else. The first post in no way included paranoia or rants, it was plain and simple like this

"Camera is still very buggy though. We had A LOT of lockup/reboot issues all day"

This guy was not even seeking any help, he was stating his "field test". Come on people. Just because Red is revolutionary does not mean we need pull a Bush Administration act on it's faults. I would rather people publicly state bugs so I can become more familiar with the camera myself. If the company doesn't understand that this will happen regardless of the faith we put into the revolution then they might as well wait till these camera's are fully tested for release. I understand the these are the first 50, but can I ask where is the first 50 number relevant? Is 50 the magic number? I expect bugs all the way till my number, I just prefer to know about each one regardless if they were fixed.

 

[LighthouseMEdia]

Ditto That Bluestar!!!

 

[David Battistella]

Us early adopters are a different sort of customer. Not better, just different. It's bittersweet: we get cameras way before most others but we know that we are receiving beta cameras. When I was down at Red Day Jim made it known we were getting Not-Ready-For-Prime-Time cameras and offered to let anyone wait until the cameras were ready. This offer was extended to ALL customers who are to receive cameras before they're "Ready".

I never realized until now that 1-50 were beta releases.

Therefor, the early adopters need to understand that the majority of the problems we face are irrelevant to the larger Red community because they will be long gone by the time the later cameras are shipped.

This is a very, very good point and we appreciate that you are the ones taking the hit for future users. I have been on the bleeding edge and I know what it means to fly this way.

Imagine if I had blasted my paranoia over the boards on Sat night? That helps NO ONE.

True, but I do not think the original post was paranoia. It was opinion and information. Until reading this thread I had no idea the extent of some of the issues users were facing, just that there were issues.

Ya'll know me, I love this place, and want to help each and every person here as much as possible.

We know this Shawn and many people share this view of the forum.
Thank you.

David

 

[Shawn Nelson]

RGD, you don't owe anybody an explanation/apology or anything. Who bought your camera? You. When someone buys my camera for me, then they can tell me not to post or how to handle a problem. Jesus, this forum is nothing like DVXUser. Too intense. I respect everyone here, but relax. Give this guy a break. I for one, would like to see more of his footage.

Uh...no didn't. His Red is in the 300s.

So, who's camera was this?

 

[Rick Darge]

It was a camera below the 50s... I won't say because I don't think its fair to the owner. I'll leave it up to them to warn future customers.

 

[Keith Alan Morris]

...perhaps there should be a separate, as in "private and non-searchable" forum directed exclusively for current registered RED owners.

Cinevate, a 35mm adapter manufacturer, hosts an "Owner's Only" forum and, let me tell you, it works pretty darn well. 100% useful info. 0% FUD. "Owners helping owners," so to speak.

REDUSER.net should take the same approach, IMHO.

bad idea. might as well take down redUSER then, or rename it to redDreamer. who needs a community if its just rainbows and cotton candy? we're all adults here and wont panic. in fact, after seeing all the great work posted, the only thing that would make me panic is if someone said, "Oh that footage? All fake."

 

[Poi Boy]

Wow, this thread is really going nowhere...he said,he meant blah blah blah. We all know now that the first cameras had issues and that red has jumped on those bugs and will continue to do so. We also know that those bugs have slowed some people down but not stopped anyone from getting great images.
Can we move on now ? How about more footage from all you lucky bastard beta testers ?
Aloha
-A

 

[Júlio Taubkin]

Hey, Shawn, I understand your point of view, and we, as readers know that the cameras that are being reported are betas. But to be true to Jim's words, he said that the cameras would never be ready and continue to be improved over the years, so it's just a matter of seeing what has been the user experience so far, nothing more sinister than that. I can't believe anybody can have a contrary reaction to RGD's post, it was a simple post, and pretty honest. And If somebody is loosing footage, it's great that we know the causes, either if it's from operator error, or camra quirks to be solved. We can learn from it either way. I come here to study on what I feel will be the primary acquisition method in a year or two, and honest information is what I'm looking for when I'm here: RAW footage, workflow, operation instructions and tips, and, heck, user experience.

I understand the concerns about creating FUD, but I just cannot see this post that way. I just think we cannot censor the sharing of information, any information, as long as it's not a lie. We all loose.

Cheers,

Boy, I wish I had one over here!

J.

 

[Poi Boy]

I hate to ask but I've been wondering all day and even my son doesn't know...WTF does FUD stand for ?
-A

 

[Matt Setnes]

All in favor of subject matter closed?

 

[Paul Leeming]

I hate to ask but I've been wondering all day and even my son doesn't know...WTF does FUD stand for ?
-A

Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt.

 

[David Battistella]

There the dead horse has been beaten!

Brook?

How about it....