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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red Scarlet-X (or perhaps Dragon) vs Ursa Mini 4.6k

Nathan DuMoulin said:
Same here.

Scarlet-W isn't in the same price bracket, but I don't trust BMD anymore. Worst PR imaginable, no respect for their customers, and poor quality control with their sensors. Meanwhile you have total transparency with Red, an accessible and passionate CEO who rambles on the forum just like the rest of us, and sensors that are tried tested and true.

It wasn't much of much of a decision at all for me.
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I was there as well. Placed an order for (2) URSA Mini 4.6k with B&H back in early September. They said it would be a November release. When I saw the Scarlet-W announced, I didn't hesitate to cancel my URSA order and get a Scarlet-W on order. Unfortunately I can't afford two brains, but will make do. I have considerably more trust in Red.
 
Well. A Scarlet-W package would be to expensive right now. I don't want to take out a loan, so I do have to pay for it myself.

Scarlet-Dragon might be possible, but the prices would have to go down a bit in the next couple of months. I'd probably have a max of about $8000 for a camera package.

I do agree: BMD has little respect for their customers. It's a blasphemy...
 
It will be interesting how long it will take Scarlet Dragon package prices to get to 8,000$ flat. Because I think sellers wouldn't shoot there prices completely to "low as possible" right away, and I think (some) buyers who are within that realm of a budget may choose to go with the more future proof DSMC2 cameras.

Scarlet X seems like your best bet on getting a package at a price that suits your budget with room left over. The Raven is close to your 8,000$ budget range and unless you use PL lenses frequently and/or need swappable OLPFs it's a great deal.

You can probably save a little money and get closer to your max budget with The Raven by buying items sperately, instead of the package. A lot of accessories from Weapon and Scarlet W should hit the aftermarket as the owners would want to upgrade to items that weren't available in their package but are necessary for their style of shooting.
 
Darryl Harris said:
It will be interesting how long it will take Scarlet Dragon package prices to get to 8,000$ flat. Because I think sellers wouldn't shoot there prices completely to "low as possible" right away, and I think (some) buyers who are within that realm of a budget may choose to go with the more future proof DSMC2 cameras.

Scarlet X seems like your best bet on getting a package at a price that suits your budget with room left over. The Raven is close to your 8,000$ budget range and unless you use PL lenses frequently and/or need swappable OLPFs it's a great deal.

You can probably save a little money and get closer to your max budget with The Raven by buying items sperately, instead of the package. A lot of accessories from Weapon and Scarlet W should hit the aftermarket as the owners would want to upgrade to items that weren't available in their package but are necessary for their style of shooting.
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You are probably right Darryl, about the Scarlet-D getting to that price. But one can only hope, right...?

I could save a little more money of course, that won't be a problem. The thing with the Raven is: does it take the same accessories like the Scarlet-body? If not: creating a package for that camera will probably be a lot more expensive than with the Scarlet-body. Also: I don't really know which of the two is better. The Raven or the Scarlet-D...?
 
Peter van der Ham said:
The thing with the Raven is: does it take the same accessories like the Scarlet-body?
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Scarlet-D is the DSMC form factor, while Raven and Scarlet-W are the DSMC2 form factor. The accessories are not interchangeable between the two form factors (although some can be with rather costly adapters).
 
Peter van der Ham said:
You are probably right Darryl, about the Scarlet-D getting to that price. But one can only hope, right...?

I could save a little more money of course, that won't be a problem. The thing with the Raven is: does it take the same accessories like the Scarlet-body? If not: creating a package for that camera will probably be a lot more expensive than with the Scarlet-body. Also: I don't really know which of the two is better. The Raven or the Scarlet-D...?
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As Nathan said, DSMC2 bodies all share the same accessories, so if you started on Raven and put yourself in a position to purchase a Scarlet W your accessories will be fine, same with Weapon.

Well.. "better" is subjective, it depends on what you need out of your camera. There are improvements in the DSMC2 bodies though, http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...he-Raven-and-the-improvements-that-they-bring
 
True. But the Scarlet-D. Will that one be upgradable to Weapon, or do you need the DSMC2 for that.

Not that the Scarlet-D isn't good enough for the coming 5 years, haha!
 
Peter van der Ham said:
True. But the Scarlet-D. Will that one be upgradable to Weapon, or do you need the DSMC2 for that.

Not that the Scarlet-D isn't good enough for the coming 5 years, haha!
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I believe the current upgrade path from Scarlet-D is the Scarlet-W, then once you have the Scarlet-W you can go up to the Weapon.
 
Peter van der Ham said:
Alright. Then it will probably be between the Scarlet-D and the Raven...
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Someone else would know this better than me, but isn't one of the major issues with the Scarlet-Dragon compression ratios? I'm under the impression that Scarlet-Weapon and the Raven have better compression ratios at 24fps in Full Frame aspect ratio.

I believe Scarlet-Weapon (does the Raven???) has 4:1 at 24fps and that's crucial for green screen type work. For myself, the 5:1 ratio is pretty crucial on the S-W and I believe Raven has that as well.

Edit: Just looked at the Scarlet-Dragon DSMC manual. At 4K 24fps, S-D is 5 to 1 which is what Raven is at, isn't it? Or is Raven 4:1?

Very tough choice. Still say, if possible, take out a loan, hit up the parents, etc... and get the Scarlet-Weapon.
 
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Gene Sung said:
Someone else would know this better than me, but isn't one of the major issues with the Scarlet-Dragon compression ratios? I'm under the impression that Scarlet-Weapon and the Raven have better compression ratios at 24fps in Full Frame aspect ratio.

I believe Scarlet-Weapon (does the Raven???) has 4:1 at 24fps and that's crucial for green screen type work. For myself, the 5:1 ratio is pretty crucial on the S-W and I believe Raven has that as well.

Edit: Just looked at the Scarlet-Dragon DSMC manual. At 4K 24fps, S-D is 5 to 1 which is what Raven is at, isn't it? Or is Raven 4:1?

Very tough choice. Still say, if possible, take out a loan, hit up the parents, etc... and get the Scarlet-Weapon.
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Raven is 3:1 at 4.5K and 4K.
 
Taking out a loan of asking my parents is a no for me. I guess you can say it's a principle thing of something like that. I don't like taking out a loan. Never have and I probably never will like it...

Still: I understand a "W" might be the best option. But a "D" and a bad one either. Nor will the "R" be...
 
I would think best bet is to wait a little while till after the masses have their damc2 cameras, price drop on used cameras should happen with in a month or two and new cameras prices could change with in a year
 
The image coming out of the BM4.6K is nothing short of beautiful. Much of the footage I see posted online looks incredibly similar to Alexa footage. In fact, I've always like the image from BM cameras. BUT I hate the cameras. And though I haven't owned any, I hear that if you have problems, good luck getting them resolved. If you're planning to make a nearly $10K investment, I would steer clear of anything BM Design. It's not worth the risk.

I just purchased a Scarlet MX last Sept. right before the Raven announcement. Needless to say I have regretted the decision since then, as the Scarlet-D prices are already coming down, and the DSMC2 bodies offer a lot of features I wish I had. If you're locked into an $8000-9000 budget and need a camera now, then I think the Scarlet MX is a perfectly capable camera. But speaking from experience, if you can wait a little longer and have a few more "G"s to spend, I would spring for a Scarlet-D or a Raven in a few months. Just know that $9000 will give you a very shootable Scarlet MX package, while you will need more like $13000 to get a really good Raven or Scarlet-D package.

I don't want to hammer on the Scarlet MX too much. I'm getting great images out of it. But it's definitely not as flexible as the Raven (in most regards), and that flexibility is something I wish I had. Plus I much prefer the Dragon color science to MX.
 
Kenneth C Merrill said:
The image coming out of the BM4.6K is nothing short of beautiful. Much of the footage I see posted online looks incredibly similar to Alexa footage. In fact, I've always like the image from BM cameras. BUT I hate the cameras. And though I haven't owned any, I hear that if you have problems, good luck getting them resolved. If you're planning to make a nearly $10K investment, I would steer clear of anything BM Design. It's not worth the risk.

I just purchased a Scarlet MX last Sept. right before the Raven announcement. Needless to say I have regretted the decision since then, as the Scarlet-D prices are already coming down, and the DSMC2 bodies offer a lot of features I wish I had. If you're locked into an $8000-9000 budget and need a camera now, then I think the Scarlet MX is a perfectly capable camera. But speaking from experience, if you can wait a little longer and have a few more "G"s to spend, I would spring for a Scarlet-D or a Raven in a few months. Just know that $9000 will give you a very shootable Scarlet MX package, while you will need more like $13000 to get a really good Raven or Scarlet-D package.

I don't want to hammer on the Scarlet MX too much. I'm getting great images out of it. But it's definitely not as flexible as the Raven (in most regards), and that flexibility is something I wish I had. Plus I much prefer the Dragon color science to MX.
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Well, that's the thing. The image looks nice indeed, but my earlier experiences with BM-camera's are not that great. I do love you the RED handles and works. I work with an Epic Dragon at my daytime (parttime next to my study in film) job and just love the flexibility of it.

I don't need a camera right now and I can wait for the Raven or Scarlet-W to arrive. We'll just have to wait and see what that does to the price of a Scarlet-D...
 
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