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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red Scarlet vs BMC

You either adapt or don't adapt. You get a camera and find its strengths and weaknesses - and you go from there. You put your heart and soul into making images and you are either happy with the camera or you are not. The BMC is a disruptor and the feedback on this site is the same feedback other people had about the Red One when it came out in 2006 or whenever it did, if I remember correctly.

And again the same feedback on reduser when the 5d started getting used on motion shoots.

This is our lives - its stressful, its frusterating - its exhiliariting. The toys keep getting cheaper and cheaper and we will get burned. But in the meantime we hope we made some imagery that we enjoy and are happy with.

Sometimes the world is crazy and sometimes they are right - with their trends. It drives me nuts. I lose so many hours of my life just in pure speculation and comparison between tools.
 
A raw camera with little NLE support=a non raw baked in camera since most will shoot to edit via prores/dnxhd thus defeating the only half way decent feature of the camera. ps since it can't change compression, it fills up ssd mags super fast. its not the nicest raw workflow at this time between the drive issues, and the lack of support for the native codec (feel free to look this up yourself, it has the workflow of a redone when it first came out and nothing worked with it besides red software back then)

No overcranks, its pretty heavy, it has a weird sensor size... and ive actually touched one, at abelcine... so that means i'm probably, hopefully more knowledgeable then people who haven't touched one, but seem to be experts at it.

but to disclose, i am a scarlet owner so obviously biased towards the higher end systems... and not plastic cameras

i mean just generally speaking, who is selling a 2.5k product other then the mbpr? cuz last time i checked 4k tvs are supposed to be dirt cheap by summer, so that camera is already obsolete arguably (along with anything else sub 4k pixels)

rabble rabble rabble, did i miss anything i can possibly use to justify paying 8x plus for my red purchase? i hope not... but i am truly happy with my scarlet...

and even happier if i make enough in time to dragonize... i mean i'm not anti bmc, i just didn't like the features...for its price it sure beats a 5d...
 
Rick Darge posted Epic and BMCC recently...

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?93522-EPIC-amp-BLACKMAGIC

Note that it's not a 'vs' thread, just comparisons. Good for people to see sensor crops etc.

Ultimatley, I see the BMCC being embraced by those who can't afford (or don't want to buy) a Scarlet - in the same way that most Scarlet users want an Epic... and most Epic owners want a Dragon (etc etc)... the cycle is never ending :)

When all is said and done, it's all about the content itself and the skill of the crew behind the camera.

Regarding cameras themselves, you're really paying for professional features and usability. I may pick up a BMCC when they become available as it looks like a useful crash-cam and B-camera.
 
After working with my Scarlet for months now I have come to the conclusion that a real B-cam for myself would only be another Scarlet or above.

Since I have no EPIC experience I dont think Id want to work with anything less than a Scarlet as a second camera in a critical shoot/project.
 
Brian Merlen said:
A raw camera with little NLE support=a non raw baked in camera since most will shoot to edit via prores/dnxhd thus defeating the only half way decent feature of the camera. ps since it can't change compression, it fills up ssd mags super fast. its not the nicest raw workflow at this time between the drive issues, and the lack of support for the native codec (feel free to look this up yourself, it has the workflow of a redone when it first came out and nothing worked with it besides red software back then)
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Fills SSD fast but you can use any SSD you want and SSD's are cheap unlike RED SSD's which have tons of air in the price. Workflow seems to be above ok. Look at bmcuser.com workflow forum.

No overcranks, its pretty heavy, it has a weird sensor size... and ive actually touched one, at abelcine... so that means i'm probably, hopefully more knowledgeable then people who haven't touched one, but seem to be experts at it.
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Scarlet doesn't do overcranks either. It does overcranks on low resolutions (1080p and lower) only. You said 2.5K is obsolete so Scarlet's overcranks at 1080p and 1K (lower than 720p) are useless for you.

but to disclose, i am a scarlet owner so obviously biased towards the higher end systems... and not plastic cameras
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It's your decision if you want to pay 15k$ or 3k$ to get same cinema grade image. I'm more interested in the image quality than the material the casing is made out of.

i mean just generally speaking, who is selling a 2.5k product other then the mbpr? cuz last time i checked 4k tvs are supposed to be dirt cheap by summer, so that camera is already obsolete arguably (along with anything else sub 4k pixels)
Click to expand...
You mean summer 2018? Btw human eyes can't see the difference between 1080p and 4K from a normal home theater watching distance.

rabble rabble rabble, did i miss anything i can possibly use to justify paying 8x plus for my red purchase? i hope not... but i am truly happy with my scarlet...

and even happier if i make enough in time to dragonize... i mean i'm not anti bmc, i just didn't like the features...for its price it sure beats a 5d...
Click to expand...

Non Scarlet/Red owners might get Dragon for cheaper.

Like I said, it's your decision if you want to put 15k$ to get same cinema grade image you can get for 3k$.
 
Like some others have said in this thread, it's not the camera but the person behind the camera. More people should understand that.

Terry VerHaar said:
Hah - I think we should take one of two paths with this... either completely ignore him, or egg him on relentlessly so he gets banned again. LOL (For me, it's the former.)
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So how does it feel to live inside a box?

btw it would be pretty funny to get banned second time for no reason.
 
Josh Snyder said:
It's your decision if you want to pay 15k$ or 3k$ to get same cinema grade image. I'm more interested in the image quality than the material the casing is made out of.
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The same cinema grade image? You've seen these projected to judge the difference in quality between 2.5K and 4K?

Or have you done the tests yourself... if so, please share!

Really, money should be spent on lenses and lights... plus an experienced crew... and an Art Director... and a set dresser... and many other talented crew. They're the things that make cinema grade images.

This whole BMCC is the 'best' and 'most amazing' 'game changer' reminds me of the days when the 5DMKII first appeared... lots of creamy/DOF style 'fluff' pieces appeared and all other pro cameras were proclaimed as obsolete and too expensive... same is happening now with the BMCC, IMO.

Purchase what you're happy with - use if for a movie or project... if that's a BMCC, great! If it's an Epic or F55... great. But you're so convinced that the BMCC is everything you need it to be, I don't really understand why you post here at Reduser, as your mind seems to me made up already?
 
yes josh ur right my camera sucks, thats why im getting an epic instead as soon as i can afford one... u win...

but i still think the bmc camera is kind of lame. at least all my parts will work on my epic
 
I hear a lot of griping in that camp.

Explains why the have nots are cranky and the have's are open minded ;)

How about this, when you get yours then show us what you've been babbling about.

Reading and repeating what others are saying kinda makes you sound like a parrot.

I have respect for your opinion, if you ever make one thats viable of course :P
 
i think i'll bring my scarlet down to abel and get them to let me do some real world tests vs the bmc. i'll settle this bs once and for all... they have one out on their display table, can probably convince them to let me shoot some charts


ps any of you wanna buy these t shirts i'm making?

http://filmsetmemes.tumblr.com/image/29498004306
 
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Josh Snyder said:
It's your decision if you want to pay 15k$ or 3k$ to get same cinema grade image.
Btw human eyes can't see the difference between 1080p and 4K from a normal home theater watching distance.
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Both of these statements are strange to me. Not just because I've projected BMC, Scarlet, and Epic images at both 2K and 4K. It's pretty much also due to the fact that the whole industry as of January 2013 kind of disagrees with your statements.

I've now seen my 4K material on displays from 36"-60', monitors and projectors, you can in fact see a difference. Both at normal and not so normal viewing distances. I don't have super human eyes. This whole UHD thing is happening because of human eyes.

And to be perfectly clear on that subject, in regards to 4K UHD resolution (3840x2160), we'll be seeing screens in the 300-400ppi range in sizes of about 9.6-12.8 inches wide for devices such as tablets and laptops because those are designed with standard viewing (and operational) distances in mind. This is also sort of an obvious point at this time considering the popularity of Retina style pixel densities.

4K is happening for a reason.
 
I hate being part of the "problem" and not part of the 'solution' but....

Does it really matter which camera is best?

Surely buy the camera you want... I'm a Canon man. I've shot with Canon glass for years, starting with my AV-1. The last decent (L) glass I used was on my 1D MarkII. So i'll be buying it for my Scarlet. UNTIL i can afford some cine glass. When I've earned it... But i'm learning all the time.. And I always keep in mind that my Scarlet was paid for by jobs filmed on my Sony Z5 - a little 1/3 inch sensor camera from 5 years ago... I can afford the BMCC and was on the list. But I can now afford a Scarlet and yes, get a little excited about joining such an illustrious club. But i've earned it, and the right to decide which one I want...

Same as when I trade in my Land Rover for an Aston Martin.... Both get me to the shopping mall, one just does it.. a little better. But then change the weather and then the other one wins.. So which one is better???

Just my thoughts

SK
 
Andy White said:
The same cinema grade image? You've seen these projected to judge the difference in quality between 2.5K and 4K?

Or have you done the tests yourself... if so, please share!
Click to expand...

I've seen both cameras projected at 2K. 2K is standard now and will be for few years. How the footage looks at 2K is what matters.

Really, money should be spent on lenses and lights... plus an experienced crew... and an Art Director... and a set dresser... and many other talented crew. They're the things that make cinema grade images.
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I agree.

This whole BMCC is the 'best' and 'most amazing' 'game changer' reminds me of the days when the 5DMKII first appeared... lots of creamy/DOF style 'fluff' pieces appeared and all other pro cameras were proclaimed as obsolete and too expensive... same is happening now with the BMCC, IMO.
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I don't think anyone has said that BMC is the best since it clearly isn't the best camera out there. People are saying that there's no reason to get 15k$ camera when you get as good cinema grade image out of 3k$ camera.

BMC isn't the best but it's game changer. Ask Jarred who owns bmcuser.com and bought BMC for big bucks (compared to the original price) from a forum user who received it first.

Purchase what you're happy with - use if for a movie or project... if that's a BMCC, great! If it's an Epic or F55... great. But you're so convinced that the BMCC is everything you need it to be, I don't really understand why you post here at Reduser, as your mind seems to me made up already?
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Read from above. Also it isn't everything I and many others need, just like Scarlet isn't.
 
Brian Merlen said:
yes josh ur right my camera sucks, thats why im getting an epic instead as soon as i can afford one... u win...

but i still think the bmc camera is kind of lame. at least all my parts will work on my epic
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I haven't said it sucks. Don't put words in my mouth. It's good camera just like BMC is.

People who have expensive cameras seem to be really scared when new cheap cameras come out that do some or all things as well as their camera. It has been like that for a long time. Maybe this will be finally history a "few" years from now when everyone can have Dragon EPIC or similar performing camera for 3k$. That time will come faster than many think now that all manufacturers are pushing the specs up and price down in ever speeding rate.
 
Josh Snyder said:
I haven't said it sucks. Don't put words in my mouth. It's good camera just like BMC is.

People who have expensive cameras seem to be really scared when new cheap cameras come out that do some or all things as well as their camera. It has been like that for a long time. Maybe this will be finally history a "few" years from now when everyone can have Dragon EPIC or similar performing camera for 3k$. That time will come faster than many think now that all manufacturers are pushing the specs up and price down in ever speeding rate.
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I wouldn't say it's fear of the value of their gear decreasing that bothers people. I think it is the over-hype of an inferior product. I have shot on both cameras, and the Scarlet is far superior to the BMCC from where I am sitting. What annoys me is all of the people who can now afford a camera that shoots beautiful raw images, but they continue to put out an infinite number of "tests" which are nothing more than some dude filming a squirrel in his backyard, but not having the knowledge to put the tool to good use.

We are in an age where success depends completely on talent, and not the gear you can afford, which is AWESOME, but why not spend the money on the education to use the camera to the best of its ability in terms of visual storytelling?

"My knowledge is far more valuable than your camera." --- This is a brilliant quote from me just now. I will write a book just to put this on the cover. Please type your compliments below. :001_tt2:

And I have owned and sold a BMCC. It was neat, but not practical for my use.
 
i didn't even know the scarlet was an expensive camera... i mean come on man, alexa, phantom, f65, all these models cost a ton. you get what you pay for, otherwise bmc will take over the market. but it won't, just like the 5d didn't. none of the high end work i do shoot on consumer equipment... only the low end work i dont even want to do half the time shoots on that stuff, the rates suck. if you wanna make money stick to the expensive stuff is how i see it man. the image might be great but find me a film, or broadcast show, or high end commercial that will shoot on it, hire a crew, rent a studio, get distributed, etc

after this post i went to CL, guess what i saw, couple months from now it'll say BMC instead of 5D, but I bet you the rate will still suck! Now I don't know about you Josh but I like Red/Phantom/Alexa pay scales and that's how I keep paying my cancer bills

PS ITS SNOWING RIGHT NOW IN CT/NYC, so that is LESS then 10 an hour IN THE FRIGGIN SNOW LMFAO

AC/Operator with 5D/7D needed (New York)

Hi,

We will be shooting a very low budget music video tomorrow from 12 pm to 8 pm. We are looking for a second operator/AC for the second camera. If you can bring your own 5D/7D camera, it would be great. It is very low budget we can pay only $75. We will provide food, transportation and credits. If you are interested please email us your info/link/reel.
Thank you
  • Location: New York
  • it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
  • Compensation: $75
 
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Calling the BMC $3K is like calling the Scarlet $8k. If you're gonna say that the Scarlet is "$15K" then the BMC sure as hell wont be "$3k" once you accessorize it, if you plan on using it professionally that is.
 
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