RED SCARLET & CANON c300

[Paul Toth]

If you need 16:9 fast 1080p turnaround, you'll be faster in post with the C300. Less steps, etc.

I find that my post steps are exactly the same... I can do 4x3 SD with a Betacam, 16x9 HD with my 170 or 4k with my Scarlet... it's the same steps: ingest, edit, correct, finish and export.

and I don't need a rocket card as premiere handles the 4k footage awesomely!

 

[Martin Weiss]

Battery belt always holds the danger of walking away from the camera while still plugged in. You can get fairly large V-lock batteries that will last a couple of hours, that you can have at the end of the camera, or as a counter balance on a shoulder rig. In this age I don't really see the point of battery belts any more - but that is just me

Don't know what the warranty situation is, but the only way a battery could damage the camera was by supplying too much voltage. If you buy from a reputable battery vendor, you should be fine. Your call in the end. Lots of redusers use 3rd party batteries, others are very happy with their RED products.

 

[Lliam Worthington]

* EDIT too slow Some of this has now been covered.

We have been advised the additional frame rates are coming soon. Scarlet is by far the wiser long term choice and is a considerably more powerful camera in the here and now and will only get more and more powerful. It's future proof. If low light is critical the C300 is superior until the new sensor upgrade - but Scarlet still produces great low light work in any case. If you want the package, I would say 18K to combine with a V mount solution and some extra media is a more workable. Also your workflow has to be considered? If you use Adobe suite it's all good.

However if you are focused on bringing cost down, and would like longer power times, then you actually don't need a side handle or Redvolts via the package approach at all, and that money would be better spent on a Vmount solution and an extra media card and can keep you under 17K - but with twice as much media and about 5 times the battery power (if you buy 2 x 160W V mounts)

Best

Lliam

 

[John Schick]

Also, there's no price difference between ordering the basic camera package and buying each item separately, so if you wanted to customize your order (i.e. replace the single 64GB SSD with the 4-pack), you could do that as well.

 

[Bob Gundu]

I would also add that you should only buy either camera if you have a sound business model and you plan to make money from them.

 

[Gregory Dillard]

Ok guys couldn't I just get the SCARLET itself and hook it up to a AJA KI PRO MINI bypassing all the media? Just trying to not exceed my budget too much. Thanks in advance.

 

[Milan Spasic]

RAW RAW RAW.

When comparing cameras, this is often the last thing people mention when giving advice and it should be the first.
Thats the reason I shoot R3D at least.
The second reason is DR.
Thats all the reason you need to buy a Scarlet, even if resolution doesn't matter to you, though it should.
Just like all those awesome SD reels are worthless now, 1080p reels will be worthless in a few years.

Future proof, RAW, DR. If you ad Ki Pro, you are all set for quick turnaround too. C300 is just no contest other than maybe low light.

My 2¢.

 

[Bob Gundu]

Ok guys couldn't I just get the SCARLET itself and hook it up to a AJA KI PRO MINI bypassing all the media? Just trying to not exceed my budget too much. Thanks in advance.

You're trying too hard to make the scarlet something that's its not. If all you want is 1080 and no Raw workflow, I don't think the scarlet is for you. RED has amazing resolution and dynamic range. Why not use it? If you really want a scarlet and you don't have the budget, wait a bit and pick up a used package.

 

[Paul Ellington]

Battery belt always holds the danger of walking away from the camera while still plugged in. You can get fairly large V-lock batteries that will last a couple of hours, that you can have at the end of the camera, or as a counter balance on a shoulder rig. In this age I don't really see the point of battery belts any more - but that is just me

Don't know what the warranty situation is, but the only way a battery could damage the camera was by supplying too much voltage. If you buy from a reputable battery vendor, you should be fine. Your call in the end. Lots of redusers use 3rd party batteries, others are very happy with their RED products.

It reminds me of "The Incredibles" never use capes... Never use battery belts for that reason, I worry about other people's clumsiness (mine) ).

 

[Gregory Dillard]

Bob,
thank you and I'm only trying to "squeeze" now. In my mind I'm figuring the SCARLET with the Canon mount, batteries and an AJA KI PRO MINI, then I should be good to go correct?

 

[Tehben Dean]

Scarlet has hdmi and HDSDI out so yes it is totally possible to record to an external recorder, but then you are losing most of the benefits of camera in the first place.
Also RED has announced that they are coming out with 32gig cards for the scarlet with a lower price point soon.

 

[Gregory Dillard]

As much as I'd like to get the RED SCARLET budget, workflow and accessories may not allow me to. We are probably 2-4 years away from even seeing 2K-4K on broadcast as they just have figured out 1080. I'm still confused and I have to make a decision end of week.

 

[Mike P.]

Ok guys couldn't I just get the SCARLET itself and hook it up to a AJA KI PRO MINI bypassing all the media? Just trying to not exceed my budget too much. Thanks in advance.

Technically this would work and it'd give you 1080p files (prores or dnxhd or whatever the the Ki records to), but there tends to be some handshaking issues -- black borders around footage or not being able to start/stop by pushing the record button... Things like that. I think right now the off board 1080p/ProRes recorder of choice is the Pix240, which has SDI and labels each clip with the exact same name as the .r3d raw files (that way you could swap them out to the 4k originals if you still ended up recording them.)

The problem with this, assuming you can get it to work properly, is that it might not be worth the extra hassle/gear/batteries/set-up. Personally, however, this is totally a workflow everyone should at least consider as 4k RAW can seem cumbersome when it's overkill. It basically trumps Alexa in every way for 1/6 the cost.

My only hesitation with the c300 is that there are other 8-bit 1080p S35 cameras for $5000 (like the FS100) that compare pretty favourably in terms of workflow, image, ease of use, and even low-light. Is there a specific reason you want the c300 over other baked-in 1080p cameras? I mean, $15Gs for 8-bit 1080p does seem kind of hurtful when you look at other products in that range (upcoming Canon 1DC, Sony FS700 or Scarlet -- all of which [eventually] shoot 4k).

 

[Bob Gundu]

Hey I still have an Af100 that works great for some jobs. Best bang for the buck if 1080 is all you want. I use it with my Samurai and all is fine for some corporate work. Plenty of money left over for other stuff. If money is that tight, you are in for a lot of heartache. Just trying to be realistic. As Mike P. also stated, the C300 doesn't make sense either. Get a cheaper camera, make some money, and upgrade when you have the money. Otherwise rent.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Hello everyone and I need some help before a purchase. I had my mind and budget set on the Canon c300. Although Im still a little confused as why Canon didnt put 120fps in that camera for that price. I'm sure that all will chime in and blast them . After doing some research the SCARLET has intrigued me. Not so much the whole 2K,4K but rather the look and the 120fps at 1K I believe. What may not allow me to purchase this camera as its too customizable that would force me over the $16K budget . With a c300 I already own CANON & ZEISS glass, so all I need are just additional CF Cards. With the SCARLET I need all this other stuff that will drive me over my budget. I'm asking for some help as I my assumption maybe incorrect. Thanks to anyone in advance that can help.

Depends on your priorities.

Scarlet route is focused on picture quality and more film-like workflow. You get more usable range and thicker canvas to work with, with more detailed control over the image and more creative options in post. Price of that route is more complex process, more time spent to fully utilize that picture quality, more expensive proprietary storage to be able to store the significantly higher data rate, and more computer power. Also, one 64GB or 32GB SSD's are not enough.

C300 route is focused on practicality and "out of the box" approach and more TV-like workflow. It requires less processing power. You get to work faster with less variables and use cheaper non-proprietary storage easily accessible everywhere. The price of that route is lower picture quality in terms of resolution, bit depth and DR usage, plus touchy TV broadcast acquisition codec not designed for post and prone to generation loss issues.

Just one wrong WB on a h264 codec, and you're screwed.

C300 uses Mpeg 2 4:2:2 codec, not 4:2:0 H.264.

It can survive simple missed white balance, unless talking about extremes. The cost is loss of precision and it's far from perfect or anywhere near RAW, but not the end of the world either. While RAW does provide more range to get away with mistakes, tool misuse argument can be applied to any camera.

My only hesitation with the c300 is that there are other 8-bit 1080p S35 cameras for $5000 (like the FS100) that compare pretty favourably in terms of workflow, image, ease of use, and even low-light.

Not the ones shooting broadcast-approved 4:2:2.

 

[Gregory Dillard]

I think I may still get a SCARLET.

 

[Björn Benckert]

Thank you Steve! I produce commercials, music videos, marketing videos, corporate, live events, shorts, etc. Unlike Canon RED has to have all of these things to function.

If you make all that kind of work rent a camera for your next project, be tight on the budget and use the money left over to buy the camera you want. If it matters on a few thousand dollars then I think you do better renting. Wait to buy something until you find the price ridiculously low compared to your rental costs.

 

[Jon Carr]

I think the best thing to do is just rent both cameras and see how well they stack up to your needs. Numbers are numbers. But whats in your needs is the deciding factor. I went Scarlet, cause RED is my main format I shoot on. So why not bite the bullet and just buy? Never liked the canon's format's or cameras, mostly for having to use it during the xlr 1 days. But to each their own. Only your needs is gonna decide what camera is right for you.

 

[Sam Edwards]

Hey Gregory,
I think you can put together a starter package for your budget. There are probably 500 people using the Switronix/GMP battery combo on scarlets. I think if there were issues we would know by now.


Red Store
Red Scarlet aluminum mount 11900
Red Touch LCD 5" 1600
Redmag 64 - $950
REDStation $250
Total $14,700

RED Epic and Scarlet Accessories
Wooden Camera
QuickBack 199
QB Battery Back Swit IDX 79
QB Switronix V-Mount $230
Total $598

Globalmediapro SC1 1-channel (D-Tap) Mini Battery Charger
Global Media Li160s-R x 2 $598
Mini Charger $50
Total $729

This package will get you started with a Scarlet and your canon lenses. The touch screen gives you complete control of the camera. 2 Global Media Batteries will give you power for nearly 6 hours and probably only a half hour wait until the previous one is fully charged. Everybody stops to eat every 5 hours or so.
Would you probably buy more stuff as time went on? Sure. But you could shoot a ton of jobs with this. I can download a 64 GB SSD to my macbook pro in about 10 minutes. Quicker if it's not completely full.

If all of your work is in the studio you could consider shooting on AC have money left over for your second SSD.

I think the JPEG/RAW analogy above is right on. Can you even imagine a serious photographer working in JPEG anymore? I'm positive that will be the case for moving pictures in the life of this camera you buy. Blown highlights are already getting pretty unacceptable.

Good Luck,
Sam

 

[Josh Snyder]

Gregory, 120fps 1K is JOKE! No one should use it and I have no idea why RED even included it since they believe 4K is the lowest people should shoot to keep the footage future proof. You understand that 1K is smaller than 720p? and you understand that the 1K is cropped from the center of the image? 1K is way too small resolution to shoot these days and sorry to say this 1K from Scarlet looks really bad. If you need 120fps these two camers aren't for you.