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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED S35 or Panasonic AF100

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Rick Burnett said:
Yes, the redmote, grip, battery, CF reader, LCD as I understand it work with ALL brains.
Click to expand...

That's a really cool advantage if it's going to work that way! But then again... Can someone explain me the advantage of a 2700 dollar sound I/O module??:confused5:
 
I tried to find the post where the differences were explained. If I recall correctly, a lot of the differences where more than 2 inputs, additional IO types (including different types of syncing) and a bunch of other stuff. For me, I don't see the need to go past what the camera already has installed. The two extra IO modules just added a bunch of stuff that wouldn't make my life any easier (I have NO problem with the smaller audio connector).
 
Rick Burnett said:
I tried to find the post where the differences were explained. If I recall correctly, a lot of the differences where more than 2 inputs, additional IO types (including different types of syncing) and a bunch of other stuff. For me, I don't see the need to go past what the camera already has installed. The two extra IO modules just added a bunch of stuff that wouldn't make my life any easier (I have NO problem with the smaller audio connector).
Click to expand...

There's a lot more to it than connectors.

Pro I/O Module $2950
The PRO I/O module will support up to 4 channels of AES-EBU digital audio and will be compatible with mixers like the Sound Devices 552.

The maximum number of recorded audio channels is 4, so enabling two or four AES-EBU inputs disables the corresponding analog audio input(s).

The Base I/O Module does not include the AES-EBU digital audio inputs. There is a Word Clock out pin in the same connector that ingests the AES/EBU digital audio.

Single and dual link HD-SDI with Full size BNC.
Full size XLR Audio Outputs
Full size XLR Audio Inputs
Two Aux power/GPIO ports.
Lens/RS232
Timecode input/output.


Base I/O Module $1750
Single and dual link HD-SDI with Full size BNC.
Mini-XLR Audio Inputs
One Aux power/GPIO
Lens/RS232
Timecode input/output.

No audio output on the Base I/O module.

with thanks to Curran Giddens
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=507544&postcount=7
 
D Fuller said:
There's a lot more to it than connectors.

Pro I/O Module $2950
The PRO I/O module will support up to 4 channels of AES-EBU digital audio and will be compatible with mixers like the Sound Devices 552.

The maximum number of recorded audio channels is 4, so enabling two or four AES-EBU inputs disables the corresponding analog audio input(s).

The Base I/O Module does not include the AES-EBU digital audio inputs. There is a Word Clock out pin in the same connector that ingests the AES/EBU digital audio.

Single and dual link HD-SDI with Full size BNC.
Full size XLR Audio Outputs
Full size XLR Audio Inputs
Two Aux power/GPIO ports.
Lens/RS232
Timecode input/output.


Base I/O Module $1750
Single and dual link HD-SDI with Full size BNC.
Mini-XLR Audio Inputs
One Aux power/GPIO
Lens/RS232
Timecode input/output.

No audio output on the Base I/O module.

with thanks to Curran Giddens
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=507544&postcount=7
Click to expand...

Where in my post did I say just connectors? I said different types of I/O. Though I will admit, I forgot about the HD-SDI ports. :)
 
Nelson Alexandre said:
Can you elaborate on this? Even now I don't quite get what it's needed (if any), besides what comes in the bundle! For instance... Does it come with an audio module with XLR inputs? The specs says it does but I can find any in the pictures of the camera so far... And can anyone elucidate me if Scarlet's Brain Only option does already come with the REDVOLT battery and travel charger? I can't seem to find it in the Scarlet module prices!
Click to expand...

Last time we were told this, one battery and a charger were in the 2/3" Fixed kit.

You'd need essentials (at least):
- 1 extra battery
- 1 extra CF (high capacity)

And optionals (depending on what you do):
- I/O Module (Regular or Pro)
- Battery module
- Proxy module
- Etc

So extras could go from $500 to $5000, it's all based on your needs.
 
D Fuller said:
There's a lot more to it than connectors.

Pro I/O Module $2950
The PRO I/O module will support up to 4 channels of AES-EBU digital audio and will be compatible with mixers like the Sound Devices 552.

The maximum number of recorded audio channels is 4, so enabling two or four AES-EBU inputs disables the corresponding analog audio input(s).

The Base I/O Module does not include the AES-EBU digital audio inputs. There is a Word Clock out pin in the same connector that ingests the AES/EBU digital audio.

Single and dual link HD-SDI with Full size BNC.
Full size XLR Audio Outputs
Full size XLR Audio Inputs
Two Aux power/GPIO ports.
Lens/RS232
Timecode input/output.


Base I/O Module $1750
Single and dual link HD-SDI with Full size BNC.
Mini-XLR Audio Inputs
One Aux power/GPIO
Lens/RS232
Timecode input/output.

No audio output on the Base I/O module.

with thanks to Curran Giddens
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=507544&postcount=7
Click to expand...

So... From what I understand TC I/O comes bundled with the sound module and since TC is crucial for me (I send it to my sound operator's Tascam HD-P2 via wireless on set), I have to spend another 1750USD on the base model if I go with the Scarlet instead of Panasonic's AF-100.

Since Panasonic announced TC I/O for AF-100, things are getting tighter between Scarlet fixed (at an estimated 4750+1750=6,5K), and AF-100's at 6K...

Obviously in that respect RED S35 is all way out from my budget right now (which was my primary concern when I first started this thread), but then and again... The modularity of the RED system (as stated by Rick Burnett in one of his previous posts), and the RAW codec keeps me thinking...
 
Red seems to be a little more "future-proof", in that you can upgrade individual parts, etc. The AF-100 looks like it will be just one unit that you'd replace if you wanted the next model (but you never know until it comes out).

But that said, I think the AF-100 will be an excellent camera. I'm already very impressed with the GH-1 for 1/10 the price.
 
Don't forget that the S35 shoots native 2:1 digital cinema ratio with 13.8 megapixel resolution. RED is a Raw, high resolution, high dynamic range, multi-format capable camera for both stills and motion. It is a world apart from an AF100. AF100 is still just a 2.2mp AVCHD camera for motion, even if they do improve the codec.
 
David Rasberry said:
Don't forget that the S35 shoots native 2:1 digital cinema ratio with 13.8 megapixel resolution. RED is a Raw, high resolution, high dynamic range, multi-format capable camera for both stills and motion. It is a world apart from an AF100. AF100 is still just a 2.2mp AVCHD camera for motion, even if they do improve the codec.
Click to expand...

If you total up an s35 package with EVF, you are looking at $15k+... so it is not comparable. Add to the fact that s35 is rarely talked about by RED management, i'm somewhat concerned that we wont see it for a while.

Note* The s35 is my dream camera and I will probably wait.... but will certainly be checking out the AF-100 for quality (the HDR expander mode seems interesting).
 
Scarlet

Scarlet

The Scarlet 2/3 is a more appropriate comparison to the Panasonic. The latter has a slightly shallower DOF, but in all other aspects the Scarlet is a clear winner.
 
The fixed is the only comparable camera (price wise) to the AF-100....

A 2/3 cinema + EVF = $6k or so..... You would need $3k-4k more to get the other accessories needed to bring it up to AF-100 level (HD-SDI, XLR etc)

Fixed Scarlet v AF-100 is a tough call..... both have upsides and downsides.

That said... for around $6k, both will be quite amazing.... we live in a fantastic time.
 
Stuart English said:
The Scarlet 2/3 is a more appropriate comparison to the Panasonic. The latter has a slightly shallower DOF, but in all other aspects the Scarlet is a clear winner.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Micro 4/3 falls between S35/APS-C and 2/3" in size, but it's overall properties are far closer to 2/3".

I have not seen the AF100 yet, other than pictures of it. But will say that I purchased a Panasonic DMC-G2 m4/3 camera and have also seen some images from the GH2 prototype. I am not a fan of what Panasonic is doing with their image processing and this whole new "Venus Engine" thing. It looks terrible, IMO. And if the AF100 is using the m4/3 sensor that is in the G2 and GH2, then I wouldn't give you $600 for the camera, let alone $6000. But whatever, I know the m4/3 fanboys are going to eat this up.

Scarlet seems like the best choice all the way... If only we could actually buy one, eh? If that were the case, I don't think this discussion would exist.

As for comparable in terms of price, I disagree that the fixed is the only one comparable. Of course it's going to be difficult to match up each camera configuration dollar to dollar between different manufacturer offerings, but I would definitely say the 2/3" Scarlet interchangeable is comparable. And we don't have all the pricing info for Scarlet anyway.
 
Jeff,

Why does this Panasonic thread continue while other Canon & Alexa threads 'walk the plank'? How is consistency of discussion measured from a 'mods' perspective?
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
As for comparable in terms of price, I disagree that the fixed is the only one comparable.
Click to expand...

It really depends on if you can live without EVF. I can't, so the others are not comparable.

You could probably work a basic 2/3" cinema package for $6k and it would beat the AF-100 in many ways..... like you say though, it is all about availability. If the Scarlet can ship before the end of 2010, alot of people will have a BIG decision to make.

If the AF-100 has a great 1080p image, it will be very tempting though. I think you are slightly off to say 4/3" is closer to 2/3" than s35.

The sensor is brand new btw, Jan (Panasonic rep) on DVX confirmed this.
 
I wouldn't think the AF-100 would have as good an image as the Scarlet. Just look at what the RED One MX is producing, then think, does any other camera produce such an image at the price?? Lets breathe and takes things rationally and be patient. RED won't disappoint for those who are patient enough. Remember these other companies are quickly acting and bringing these cameras (i.e. the AF-100) out all because of the work at RED. RED is the one who sets the bar now, and the others have had their feathers ruffled.
 
...besides SONY got my goat once by forwarding on a video camera to the ITV television channel who needed an extra camera. I had to re-wait another 3 months before I finally got mine delivered. I was not pleased with SONY!!! B$%&rds!!! :)
 
Jim Retar said:
It really depends on if you can live without EVF. I can't, so the others are not comparable.

You could probably work a basic 2/3" cinema package for $6k and it would beat the AF-100 in many ways..... like you say though, it is all about availability. If the Scarlet can ship before the end of 2010, alot of people will have a BIG decision to make.

If the AF-100 has a great 1080p image, it will be very tempting though. I think you are slightly off to say 4/3" is closer to 2/3" than s35.

The sensor is brand new btw, Jan (Panasonic rep) on DVX confirmed this.
Click to expand...

I really prefer an EVF too. But I am thinking of using the small 2.8" LCD with something like a Zacuto Z-finder as a poor man's EVF. Be nice to come up with a hinged frame for it so you could flip it out of the way like the better broadcast camera EVF's have.
 
The good thing is that I think the two formats will cut together well.... if it can resolve a proper 1080p signal, I may be tempted to get the AF-100 and the 2/3" fixed Scarlet. That could make a nice little setup. The HDR mode on the AF-100 should bring it close to the DR of the Scarlet.

I can also build up a nice collection of PL lenses that can work on the 4/3 and maybe sell the AF-100 when the S35 comes out.

It is not always a case of only having one brand in your set up.
 
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