RED Roadmap...

[Stephen Matthews]

Notice that it says 'Scarlet' and not 'ScarletS' og 'Scarlet Fixed' or 'Interchangable.' The Epic's are both written precicely with their following letter. Just something to think about.

Yes but those are the released camera's, hence we know about them. the others.... who knows as red is not telling us. Speculation and assumptions are fun but you shouldn't take it to seriously.

 

[Tony Warrilow]

I believe what you're looking for is Monstro 645/617, which will probably show up when we least expect it. They are Digital Stills and Motion Cameras (DSMCs), just like EPIC and Scarlet, with view camera sized image sensors. I seem to remember they were talking about 120 megapixel images, so their planned specs already exceed your dream specs .

They will be mind-bendingly expensive, but then again, so is a Hasselblad. And the amount of processing power needed to handle the images, let alone video, is mind-boggling.


By View camera do you mean 5 x 4 inch or is it 6 x 4.5 cm? 120 megapixel...wow that will do it.

Does epic produce stills? if so what size?

cheers again.

 

[David Rasberry]

I believe what you're looking for is Monstro 645/617, which will probably show up when we least expect it. They are Digital Stills and Motion Cameras (DSMCs), just like EPIC and Scarlet, with view camera sized image sensors. I seem to remember they were talking about 120 megapixel images, so their planned specs already exceed your dream specs .

They will be mind-bendingly expensive, but then again, so is a Hasselblad. And the amount of processing power needed to handle the images, let alone video, is mind-boggling.


By View camera do you mean 5 x 4 inch or is it 6 x 4.5 cm? 120 megapixel...wow that will do it.

Does epic produce stills? if so what size?

cheers again.

From the original DSMC announcement in 2008, the 645 is 6 x 4.5cm 85Mp at up to 50fps and the 617 is 6x17cm panoramic format 261Mp at up to 28 fps. No one knows what has changed since then though.

 

[Eston Diaz]

From the original DSMC announcement in 2008, the 645 is 6 x 4.5cm 85Mp at up to 50fps and the 617 is 6x17cm panoramic format 261Mp at up to 28 fps. No one knows what has changed since then though.

DAMN!!!

 

[David Dennis]

I believe what you're looking for is Monstro 645/617, which will probably show up when we least expect it. They are Digital Stills and Motion Cameras (DSMCs), just like EPIC and Scarlet, with view camera sized image sensors. I seem to remember they were talking about 120 megapixel images, so their planned specs already exceed your dream specs .

They will be mind-bendingly expensive, but then again, so is a Hasselblad. And the amount of processing power needed to handle the images, let alone video, is mind-boggling.


By View camera do you mean 5 x 4 inch or is it 6 x 4.5 cm? 120 megapixel...wow that will do it.

Does epic produce stills? if so what size?

cheers again.

You got your view camera information earlier in the thread - I have never used a view camera so I really don't know what I'm talking about (and thanks for the corrections, guys).

The whole concept of RED is as a camera that takes a continuous, high-speed stream of DSLR-quality RAW images, so yes, every frame taken is also a usable still, at the same size as the frame. EPIC's 5k resolution is 5120 (h) x 2700 (v). (The K number (4K, 5K, etc) refers to the horizontal resolution of the image, so 5k is short for 5120x2700.

D

 

[Eric J Kosinski]

That is exactly what we will NOT do.

Jim

I don't quite understand why it would be so devastating to outline more serious delivery dates for the "Scarlet" ? No need to outline all the details of the camera, specs, etc, but even Sony, Canon, JVC, etc, all have basic availability dates once we hear of a product (we've all heard of Scarlet for years). Most of us (who have a Scarlet budget) are on the fence to purchase other products anyhow if we have to wait too long from RED, such as the Sony F3, etc. I completely understand NOT wanting the competition to know future products, but it has been OBVIOUS for years now Scarlet is a realization, even outlined in the Roadmap by RED (sure specs aren't outlined and that is fine) so just give us people waiting so long an idea of when it will be released or estimated delivery?

I mean I get marketing concepts (undergrad in Film & Media arts, Masters in Bus/Marketing here), but most marketing concepts are based on NOT releasing any info until a product is ready. We all understand how that makes sense, but RED is hyping the SCARLET years in advance and now says it will no longer define a product/release delivery info/dates, etc until it is ready of release? Red's choice of course, but Sony, and the others already know Scarlet is a future product, already know what RED is capable of at the highest level and Scarlet will be far less then the most impressive specs from Red (or RED may surprise us as usual). It is already outlined in estimated price point and most people have some idea of the specs, including major manufacturers. The information released in hype, already gives the competition some idea of what RED is producing with the Scarlet, so PLEASE estimate a delivery date so buyers like me do not need to be forced into a SONY purchase months before a scarlet comes out because of lack of info. (BTW, I can't afford the current product line from RED or I would already by a user/buyer, which is the only reason I'm (and so many others) are considering Sony, etc)

 

[Scott Crawley]

I don't quite understand why it would be so devastating to outline more serious delivery dates for the "Scarlet" ? No need to outline all the details of the camera, specs, etc, but even Sony, Canon, JVC, etc, all have basic availability dates once we hear of a product (we've all heard of Scarlet for years).

Eric that has been covered extensively but I will give you the Cliff's notes version:
People are impatient.
There are too many variables involved to project an accurate delivery date.
People are impatient.
Missed dates create a negative impression.
It is better for Red to publish a release date only when it is imminent because...
Wait for it...
People are impatient.

 

[David Rasberry]

The big guys have been doing regularly scheduled annual product roll outs from an engineering and manufacturing base that has been in place for decades. They announce products when they are nearly ready for production, not at the beginning of the development cycle like Red did in 2008.

Red is releasing its first line of cameras designed for efficient production line manufacturing. They are starting from scratch with new production facilities and supply chains. Especially in the current world market and the aftermath of the Japan disaster, delivery of components in quantity at acceptable cost and time frames may not be so predictable.
Jim and Jarred have both said they will not guess about schedules anymore. They will tell us when they know with 100% certainty that they can deliver. This likely means when they actually have the parts in hand.

One of our major suppliers, Extron, announced a new product line at the trade shows this summer, but did not announce a release date due to questions about chip supply. Their rep told me they have significant quantities of parts in hand, enough to begin production, but not enough to meet anticipated demand. So they are waiting for more inventory and greater certainty on the supply side before setting a release date.

 

[Eric J Kosinski]

Eric that has been covered extensively but I will give you the Cliff's notes version:
People are impatient.
There are too many variables involved to project an accurate delivery date.
People are impatient.
Missed dates create a negative impression.
It is better for Red to publish a release date only when it is imminent because...
Wait for it...
People are impatient.

Thanks for the insight, and I agree people are impatient, but I mentioned "estimate" as RED did officially announce it to be the next product in the roadmap after Epic X is shipping and it is soon. In a previous post, I think it was Jim or Jarred that mentioned no other company, not Sony, etc, etc releases info before a product is ready or close to being ready. That is true and makes sense, but what I'm stating is there is no point to claim that releasing possible info about an estimated delivery date, could potentially help the other competitors at this point. Red has done a great job at that already and I do realize they don't want to do it any further, but the customer is the focus, right? If so, since everyone knows about this product "Scarlet" already, let us have some idea of when it will be out.

The Epic S is no longer in the Roadmap, so it leads me to believe the Epic S will become some form of the Scarlet, but maybe that is wishful thinking, or honestly a disappointment as the Epic name will hold more value and street cred. Anyhow, I am literally ready to buy a Sony F3 as of yesterday, but if I knew (and I'm sure thousands of others are in the same boat) the Scarlet was even coming before mid next year, I would wait.

Once a product is announced from any other company, like the Canon 8-15mm L series fisheye, or the Sony FS 100, etc, etc, it quickly follows with an estimated delivery date (and to be completely honest is most likely the real delivery date). Red is very forward thinking and so much so they claim to be ahead of the pack on that with ideas, but if these ideas aren't a realization that is really to deliver soon, they should have never mentioned it anyhow.

RED, for future products, keep us in the dark until they are ready, but the people deserve to know a bit more about a product that you have been leading them up to for years, no?

 

[Scott Crawley]

Eric, Eric, Eric...

Your impatience is showing. ;-) In a way I'm with you as I too have been eagerly awaiting the right Red for my needs. However it is assumptions like the ones you just made RE: Scarlet and Epic-S that are at the heart of the matter.

The tempting and teasing all lead to buzz and speculation which was good in the beginning, but after three years it has become truly counter-productive. A period of silence is called for IMHO.

 

[Eric J Kosinski]

Eric, Eric, Eric...

Your impatience is showing. ;-) In a way I'm with you as I too have been eagerly awaiting the right Red for my needs. However it is assumptions like the ones you just made RE: Scarlet and Epic-S that are at the heart of the matter.

The tempting and teasing all lead to buzz and speculation which was good in the beginning, but after three years it has become truly counter-productive. A period of silence is called for IMHO.

I will admit, I'm very impatient at this point. You got me there Scott. This forum is of course an arena for speculation, opinion, etc. I do not think posting my opinion, or mention of my impression of RED's past postings is counterproductive. Just venting a bit about my readiness to purchase a camera and after reading some of RED's comments in recon about what to expect and not to expect from other companies with delivery dates, deadlines, etc, I felt it necessary to voice my opinion as we all have been waiting for this product and I think most of us see how hype for so long could lead to a negative opinion. I strongly agree with RED execs to halt hype on future products, but Scarlet by now should have been a past product, based only of course on their promotion and NOT technology.

I'm sure my postings will not lead to an expedited delivery of Scarlet, EPIC S, etc, but it just felt good as a morning rant !! thanks for the feedback. I will wait until Jan myself and buy a Sony F3. If Epic S, Scarlet is released soon after, maybe I can make enough money with the F3 to buy RED. Good luck to all in the same situation.

 

[Kirk.Attard]

I am one of those that is looking forward towards the Epic-S or cinema Scarlet. I fit in that sector.. Today I officially decided to follow RED for one simple reason. Well actually two .

I was reviewing the interviews of Ted at CES and all the good news about the red rocket via thunderbolt and stuff and I happened to stumble upon the Arri alexa update..
I was disgusted with the approach of these leeces.. The guy said " Now we offer high speed within the Alexa. You can purchase a licence for 1300 euro "

WTF!! First of all 120 fps. What kind of high speed is that. Even the scarlet will do better than that with its bursts.. IN RAW and three times the resolution of ALEXA !! And secondly.. Purchase a licence.. Is this the way they treat their clients that commit to a seriously overpriced camera. Good but overpriced.. Red release update upon update for their firmware always for free..
I dont want to buy a camera and be asked to dish out money for something that should have been in the camera in the first place..

So - Jim - I love the road map - I know we will not be dissapointed.. Amaze us.. I with many other will follow. Not because we are blind. At the contrary, I see a visionary that does not care only about making money..

SO rock on RED!!


Btw.. About the second point... I saw Ted playing around with the Scarlet on that IBC clip.. Instant love.. I think that package will be the most amazing package ever.. Man even my EX-1 costs that much.. And now its only good for showing SCARLET on youtube..

I see a visionary and I'm sure I will not be led astray.. !!!

 

[Nathan VanderByl]

WTF!! First of all 120 fps. What kind of high speed is that. Even the scarlet will do better than that with its bursts.. IN RAW and three times the resolution of ALEXA !! And secondly.. Purchase a licence.. Is this the way they treat their clients that commit to a seriously overpriced camera. Good but overpriced.. Red release update upon update for their firmware always for free..
I dont want to buy a camera and be asked to dish out money for something that should have been in the camera in the first place..

I agree with this. If Arri are simply charging to unlock what the camera is already capable of, that is borderline unethical. One of the (many) things I respect about RED is their attitude to exceed everybody's expectations and give the customer the best value for their money. Most companies would be content with either.

Let's face it, the Epic-S was an interesting hybrid. Not quite an Epic, but more than a Scarlet. Having a camera that straddles both product lines is potentially misleading and confusing to the customer. RED could simply be revising where this camera sits in the overall master plan. From memory, I think Jim stated that the Epic-S would not be upgradeable to Dragon. Having a product in the Epic family that isn't upgradeable likely wouldn't go down well.

From my own limited experience on this board, everybody at RED strikes me as smart. They've heard we want something that sits in between the Scarlet fixed and an Epic-X. The market here would be enormous! It's also worth remembering that every time RED has announced a camera, they have worked at nothing short of improving it, usually far beyond what any reasonable person could expect. If the Epic-S, as we know, has fallen off the roadmap to be reimagined, wait until we see what it re-emerges as! Just look at the evolution of both Scarlet and Epic lines from when they were announced!

Of course, you better not make me look an arsehole now, Jim!

 

[Eston Diaz]

I could be talking crazy. I could be wishful thinking. But scouring the latest and greatest fundementals. Its seems that JVC and Canon are talking 4k systems around the $10K down price range. Canon is also talking Monitors in that system, but again that is not Cinema specific, they seem to be going universal and also incorporating diagnostic imaging.

I'm hoping and praying that for some strange reason the Scarlet will come in at 4k (3.2K) for at or under $10K. I plan on only going Red. I just don't know which direction yet. Scarlet or R1 M-X. Maybe Epic but I don't know how the game is gonna play out. Either way its Red, cause I make films, and Red is Cinema Specific.

 

[Jarek Zabczynski]

JVC's new 4k offering requires you shoot to 4 SD cards and then import all 4 and hope the software can stitch it together into a 4k file. This is one of the most idiotic things I've ever heard in video land. Who wants something like that? Oh and all in h.264...yay...

Epic-S may be undergoing a revamp, but I have no doubt there will be that magic "in between" cam that many of us are lusting for, hopefully still floating in the $12k-15k range.

 

[Eston Diaz]

I don't feel anything the competition does will fulfill my needs. They are wearing too many hats. Trying to satisfy too many people. Even the prototype Canon 4K was called a "Universal" camera. Your (Jarek) right, the codec is all weird. Even that Gustav guy said they are "working" on the workflow to be universal with editing software. Red is already there. A fixed lens Scarlet is still more cinema specific than a 4k Universal Canon. The fixed lens covers most sizes a filmaker will use.

 

[I Bloom]

Hello

Hello

Hi,

Somewhere along the line I lost track...

Will Red still build the Epic-S?
What models of Scarlet will be available?

Thanks,
IBloom

 

[Häakon]

Hi,

Somewhere along the line I lost track...

Will Red still build the Epic-S?
What models of Scarlet will be available?

Thanks,
IBloom

We don't know. RED will let us know what products are available when they are ready to ship.

 

[Jarek Zabczynski]

Will Red still build the Epic-S?

The current six million dollar question...

 

[I Bloom]

We don't know. RED will let us know what products are available when they are ready to ship.

Fair enough.