RED RF to PL eND Mount Quick First Look

[Phil Holland]

At the XR Studios event this evening (great event), I got my first real hands-on look at this new mount, which should answer a bunch of questions.

Firstly, this is the same tech that's in the Raptor XL camera which I have tested thoroughly. Rather than built into the body, you have a mount with a cartridge based system. It ships with a Clear and 2-7 Stop eND and they do come in matched pairs to have identical back focus. That's all gravy and the known factors, but I really wanted to see the interface and control.

So. Currently, you can set the thing to 1, 1/3, and 1/4 Stop Increments. This can be controlled via the buttons on the cartridge itself. On screen you'll see your current density in stops (you can change how it displays) and that's next to the current ISO. Punch into the ISO Menu and you get a bottom menu to change increment as well as density. On Komodo series cameras you also get a nice ND button bottom left to open up the "tape scroll menu". Additionally, this can be controlled through the RED Control app as well.

This is all happening in a mount that also transmits /i Data. All good news there as it is the same build quality and mounting hardware of the straight RF to PL Mount. System feels solid, friction lock, I did shake the camera a bit to see if anything crazy would happen. Nothing to be concerned with there either, but I would tape it down if mounting to a fast moving vehicle just in case.

I asked what questions I could. Yes, there will be a little case to put your unused cartridge in. Inspecting it, you'll want to keep those contacts tidy.

That's the quick stuff. Looks like it's shipping relatively soon. Lots of people have been looking for this bad boy. Nice to see it fully up and running as well as integrated at this level.

 

[andrewhake]

I honestly think the cartridge system is a great idea. Thanks for the extra details. If the most expensive part of the system ever has an issue or gets damaged somehow, can actually be replaced relatively easy. Or for people doing critical shit they could even keep extras on hand. Love they way the integrated it into the Komodo bottom menu like that.

And also said it many times and will say it again. EF version please RED.

 

[James Sielaff]

it isn't the worst concept. in a way, it allows for changing between diffusion, as well as potentially a more color critical variable ND that starts at ND1.2 or something.

Still early days, but might as well take the good with the bad.

Bad:
- It is certainly less of a universal standard, and only will work with this mount
- potential for dust
- inconvenient for run n gun work, to have to have quick access to a small optically sensitive part.

Good:
- modular
- smaller parts
- behind the lens filtration options (including mechanized visual effect)
- potential for very cheap 3rd party cartridges (cheaper than 4x5.65 filters)
- remote control eND

 

[andrewhake]

I think the cartridge swap is in some ways easier than dealing with a matte box or screw on filters. Just in the sense that it's less stuff to keep track of to have a 0 + 2-7 stop ND solution. And on the other hand definitely much more critical to keep behind the lens ND solutions clean where front of lens is more forgiving.

I personally wouldn't want a built in mechanical ND swap system, but with how popular the Komodo-X will likely be, maybe someday they will make a Komodo-XL for those people. Do the build-in NDs in the Raptor-XL live behind the OLPF or in front of?

 

[Les Hillis]

Looks like a really good ND solution for PL lenses that don't have an unusually long protruding rear element.

Seems well made, thought out and integrated into the cameras it's designed for.

A lot easier to use than front mounted ND filters, especially with being remotely controllable.

RED have never claimed it's 100% colour-shift-free at all strengths, but whatever shifts there are seem negligible and easily enough corrected in post. Most front ND's wouldn't have better performance, despite the claims.

Probably less chance of getting dust onto the OLPF/glass sensor cover swapping cartridges than when changing lenses. Unless you're repeatedly moving in and out of very low light, you wouldn't usually need to change to the clear cartridge more than once, if at all.

All the RED camera's this would be used on have at least 2 stops of exposure latitude up or down, so the fact that the e-ND starts at 2 stops isn't really an issue.

Will be interesting to see if Kippertie or someone else makes some diffusion or other weird cartridges for it.

Just saying all this to give a thumbs up to RED for continuing to do the work and come up with their own solutions to making high-quality image-capturing possible.

 

[Erik Vanlenten]

some needs to crunch some number and create a list of lenses that work on this system. Other than that I'm very tempted to add this to the kit.

 

[Patrick Tresch]

I love my Kippertie ND behind the lens fixed filter, it offers another protection to the sensor. And dust on the ND is less problematic than on the sensor itself. No dust is better...
So big thumb up for RED doing this E-ND.

 

[Les Hillis]

Not to dismiss or diminish RED's achievement here, or the level of modern high-end ND technology in general, but now that RED have got their own ND solution sorted, does that mean they can start working on HDR-X 2?

A new version of HDR-X, paired with their latest cameras, and sprinkled with some AI post-processing pixie-dust, could make physical ND of any sort redundant.

Combined with a new sensor specifically designed to work with the process, it could put the camera's dynamic range figuratively and literally off the charts.

Just saying/asking.

 

[Leonardo Newman]

Not to dismiss or diminish RED's achievement here, or the level of modern high-end ND technology in general, but now that RED have got their own ND solution sorted, does that mean they can start working on HDR-X 2?

A new version of HDR-X, paired with their latest cameras, and sprinkled with some AI post-processing pixie-dust, could make physical ND of any sort redundant.

Combined with a new sensor specifically designed to work with the process, it could put the camera's dynamic range figuratively and literally off the charts.

Just saying/asking.

something to think about is what the purpose of a cinema camera is. Cameras are made to capture what’s in front of it. When we start talking about AI and fancy Post processing, is the final result a real image or a computer generated image?

I am hopeful for an HDRx return for Dsmc3, I even have some unique ideas about it, that I think RED could use to make it useable in almost every situation. I just don’t think I’m interested in fake AI processing, like how smartphones replace the moon.

 

[Les Hillis]

I know what you mean and share your opinion. Am thinking more along the lines of assisted interpolation than outright generation.

I'm sure it's going to happen in the broader industry in some form or another, or several forms. And now that you mention it, some of it won't be the kind of thing either of us would actually use (even if it is popular or very successful).

Still, I think RED could use the technology to get better results along the same lines they're already travelling.

 

[Les Hillis]

If we are talking about AI and fancy Post processing though...

Why not just record key-frames in-camera and let the AI generate the rest of it in post? Could more than halve data-rate and storage requirements at capture, leaving more space for other data like resolution or colour-depth, or whatever.

 

[Vedran Strelar]

I posted my initial impressions under one of the eND related posts in RAPTOR forum, haven't seen this thread before, so reposing here in case someone might find it useful!


My initial impressions are:

- I really like the build quality, and locking ring is really smooth and has a good grip. I also own RF-PL adapters from Tilta, Metabones and Kippertie, the one from RED feels on the same level as Metabones which is the one I prefer the most.

- Good news is that the eND and clear cartridges have small protective "pelican" case to keep them stored safely!

- Camera will recognize the mount and eND (I believe only if you have the latest firmware installed) and in the menu you can choose if you want to dial the ND increments in 1/4, 1/3 or full stops. ND values will show in top right corner of the overlay.

- + and - buttons on the eND are well designed, you can definitely feel when you have pressed one of the buttons.

- You can change the ND value with clicking the + or - on the adapter, assigning user buttons on the side of the camera, via SmallHD monitor with Red Control and through the RED app on the phone.




Below is a quick unscientific test using the eND
I did a quick test of how the eND PL mount performs and if there are any noticeable color shifts. In a test here I did a correction of +3 on the tint to add green when CLEAR filter was mounted, and tint is 0 when adding a 2-7 stops cartridge. So its good to know that 2-7 stops ND cartridge add a slight but constant green tint - throughout the range from 2-7 stops, it does not shift.

This test was shot in 8K 17:9 aspect, which on 18mm Schneider FF Xenon lens gives a little bit of vignetting. Important to know, this vignetting is not present here because of the Red RF-PL adapter with eND, it's present as well with all the other RF-PL adapters I have. These Schneider lenses do not fully cover the VV sensor size, however when I shoot 8K 16:9 aspect ratio, vignette pretty much completely disappears.

 

[Erik Vanlenten]

Anyone use Cookes with this system?

 

[Alex Waugh]

Most s4s won’t work, same with s35 panchros. FF panchros are mostly fine I believe.

 

[Jason Montalvo]

Used s7/I's on vv raptor with this system and all worked perfectly

Anyone use Cookes with this system?