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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red Render Farm

Everyone uses X86 Based machines to do linux / Win / OSX tasks... Even Apple! The IT structure is far from unknown. OSX is openBSD 4.0, Aqua is a GUI for BSD. When there is a Hardware problem who do you call? Asus, Tyan, Intel, there are dozens ready to give support. If you need Apple software support who do you call Apple! Wait in line for level 2. The Hardware is identical. Any IT will know what vendor / device ID's and a permissions list are.

If you've ever installed drivers for a windows / linux machine then you dont need support because yes, its that easy... Once the drivers are installed you can call apple all you want for Software support because theres no longer a difference.
 
Chill. :)

I actually think it's good that some chip away on apples prices, but @ the moment they're very competively priced. That's god, not bad. Even the xserves are within reach of smaller facilities these days...

All I say is that I didn't find the price difference sufficient to go on with my search. You can definitely build cheaper towers than Mac towers, but similarily spec'ed, there's really nothing to gain, and you have a waranty.

This may change again, as the situation has been different previously.

But to me:
I'll rather spend my time using the boxes than building them (and I've built some PCs in my previous life....)

Cheers and sorry for keeping the thread OT. The main subject is more important than our personal preferences as to hardware...

Gunleik
 
True, im interested in better Distributed workflows, you are correct in an 8 core MAC being reasonably priced without the hassle. After my research today, there isnt enough High Quality Hardware available to truly top the Mac Pro, Apple may have an advantage in the market by keeping companies behind them.

I did find a better board with Dual SLI, and also a 3.0 ghz Quad Harpertown Xeon for $900 each, but only 1333FSB, I really want 1600mhz.
 
x86box said:
$2400 for x2 - 3.0ghz Quad Core Xeon
$400 for Dual Xeon Socket Mobo
$800 for 16GB of RAM
$300 for 8800GT 1GB DDR3 (yes it exists for this price 600mhz GPU core clock)
$200 for extra accessories (DVD,case,fans / fan controllers)
750GB HDD $150, (or $150 for a 75GB 10000rpm Raptor. Which is extremely fast as an OS drive..)
Click to expand...

...A fine config for a Mac clone. But definitely not what I would recommend for a render node. Dedicated render nodes need CPU power and RAM and little else. Why spend on the 8800GT, DVD drive, 750GB HDD, etc..?

I think OSX on a render farm is a silly approach. By the time you get 10 such systems or so assembled and installed you will have created a paradox. Meaning that you're a small one-man operation and you have too much time on your hands that could be better spent doing something else, you probably don't need the render farm. Or you need the render farm and you just paid an employee or two to assemble this farm when they could have been doing something else... The resources allocated there would probably buy you 10 Xserves instead of 10 hackintoshes.

For the one-man shop, you may as well just set up the farm as Windows or Linux. REDLINE for Win / Lin will be available soon... Still before most people get ahold of cameras. Most other apps in the world render across Win / Lin, not OSX... Unless you're into setting up Xgrid or an Xsan infrastructure... And then, see my points above. If you're looking for quality 8-core hardware, the Mac Pro and Xserve are priced well right now. Just be careful about what you buy and and when... In 5 months, the Apple systems will be starved for an update and still selling for the same price and you won't want to touch them with a 10ft pole, let alone your credit card.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
I think OSX on a render farm is a silly approach...
Click to expand...

Agreed, sorta, if you're not having a fair part of your income from Shake gigs in HD....

Then this is a sort of: 2 for one solution.

Now, if one was to jump ship for Nuke...

In studio we have both Lin and OSX SANs set up.


Gunleik
 
I never really suggested an 8 core for a render node, I suggested a Quad core 2 duo for a affordable rack mountable node. They are cheap to build and multi OS, as I mentioned if you go with Mac Pros your stuck with having to use Bootcamp or different hacked bootloadersto run a better distributed processing software. That was the main point... Going to Win / linux would be a breeze because you'd be basically building the machines I described... But not as powerful.. and Not needing the GPU... The Quad 2 duo is as fast as a Mac Pro Quad, there are plenty of 775 mobos with 16-32GB supported. If you went with 2 - 2.0ghz Xeon Quad cores they come out to $2200 each, with 16GB RAM, and less without the GPU. That however is a bit of a bargain...

Running OSX is just a bonus... I believe that was the point I was trying to make instead of being locked into Apple. Right? Isn't that what we are all saying? I'm just promoting the fact that there is a 100% chance OSX will run on your Linux nodes.
 
x86box said:
The Quad 2 duo is as fast as a Mac Pro Quad, there are plenty of 775 mobos with 16-32GB supported. If you went with 2 - 2.0ghz Xeon Quad cores they come out to $2200 each, with 16GB RAM, and less without the GPU. That however is a bit of a bargain...

Running OSX is just a bonus... I believe that was the point I was trying to make instead of being locked into Apple. Right? Isn't that what we are all saying? I'm just promoting the fact that there is a 100% chance OSX will run on your Linux nodes.
Click to expand...

i would recommend quadcores for a renderfarm. thats where the sweetspot in the market is right now.
quad 2.4 ghz: 200-230€
mobo incl. dual gbit ethernet and onboard graphics: 50-100€
4GB ram: 150€
(19´) power suppy / case: 50-100€
so, price per core is somewhere at ~150€, at apple its almost double the price per cpu.
also count in the additional space and power consumption, as the apple pro pc will have to feed its external graphics card etc.

also, 8 cores will have proportionally much more idle cpu cycles in a 4k environment attached by gigabit ethernet.
 
Deanan said:
It doesn't need QT for Linux but that would also mean no QT support under linux. The downside to the linux QT libs is that some important things are missing like timecode tracks (or the were the last time I looked at them).

FFMpeg is a wildcard because it's LGPL and we'd have to look at what we'd need to do in detail from a legal standpoint.
Click to expand...

As Joomla pointed out, LGPL shouldn't be your concern, rather GPL. But ultimately, just link to the libav* libraries and you'll be fine.

I think the biggest problem you'll encounter is the development cycle behind ffmpeg and the libav* libraries, since they don't have a formal release cycle. If you develop for the ffmpeg libs today, your app could break with the libav* libs of tomorrow (literally, tomorrow).

You might even consider writing a REDCODE library, free or not, and then contributing a plugin into ffmpeg that links the RED library. A REDCODE library would go way farther for me and my tooling with IFX... :shiftyph34r:

The libavcodec/libavformat plugin apis are pretty lightweight, and I'd be happy to contribute with the ffmpeg glue.
 
For the record

For the record

I'll be using Linux for anything and everything I can.

I'll probably be forced to buy a mac in the short term (I'm only working at 1080p at first). When I put together a render farm, it will be Linux. I (and the IT guys) just have to figure out what that would look like. This thread has been helpful, but I guess I'll keep reading.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Or you need the render farm and you just paid an employee or two to assemble this farm when they could have been doing something else... The resources allocated there would probably buy you 10 Xserves instead of 10 hackintoshes.
Click to expand...

I am pretty sure you will see some nice clusters of Xserves on 10G rockin the R3Ds in Qmaster at the Red-Centric shops like PlasterCity and Offhollywood ...
 
So Mark. What are your thoughts on XSERVE vs MacPro's, given that you have all the space you need.

I've been leaning towards Macpros...

Gunleik
 
gunleik said:
So Mark. What are your thoughts on XSERVE vs MacPro's, given that you have all the space you need.

I've been leaning towards Macpros...

Gunleik
Click to expand...

I have a VERY open mind headed into NAB -

We are still doing demolition/construction at the new site.

We will not be purchasing for our new infrastructure until May - so we will continue to tough our way through projects with our existing hardware -
 
we went infiniband backbone and quadcore basing blades.
32 cores now, probably 64 in the summer/fall.
 
Deanan said:
What protocol are you using over IB?
Click to expand...

Not 100% decided. Achim, who is running the the farm, is still struggling to decide which OS will be the main OS.

linux would be preferred (but no 3ds max and redcode), osx would miss max / vray and windows would miss redcode.

protocol and os decisions probably have to wait until NAB, one of the reasons we are -very- keen on redline on windows.

I dont know which protocol is used as interim, and if the links are aggregated.
 
It's been quite a while since I used IB extensively but at that point windows and osx drivers were weak and very unstable. Linux was the only one that worked properly. I'd be curious if NFS over RDMA is working well and if the win/osx drivers are better.
 
Deanan said:
It's been quite a while since I used IB extensively but at that point windows and osx drivers were weak and very unstable. Linux was the only one that worked properly. I'd be curious if NFS over RDMA is working well and if the win/osx drivers are better.
Click to expand...

I didnt do any first-hand testing, but Achim told me that he has every OS running fine (not with all blades simultaneously however) now. However he said that the installation was like -completely- challenging before all components accepted to working together (driver revision-combination hell).

Btw Deanan, is there a -rough- estimate when redline will be available on win or linux or is it still to early to ask?
 
Deanan said:
It's been quite a while since I used IB extensively but at that point windows and osx drivers were weak and very unstable. Linux was the only one that worked properly. I'd be curious if NFS over RDMA is working well and if the win/osx drivers are better.
Click to expand...
"word on the street" is - good 10G Leopard things happening ....
 
No rough estimates right now but a crude estimate is probably around may but possibly before.
 
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