RED RAY PRO PLAYER - 4K server - ALIVE!!

[M Most]

Cinemas like to use their auditoriums for coporpate events, sell advertising to local vendors, etc... Additionally, some smaller distibutors may opt to forego the hassle and cost of creating DCP compliant packages if what Red Ray PRO provides is a sufficient equivilence of functionality (i.e. color space, XML playlist/asset functionality, etc...) at a fraction of the equipment/autohring cost... especially if the vastly lower bitrates allow for ease of distribution not possible with DCP.

Hence why I said that there are a number of uses other than motion pictures distributed by major distributors. However, I would also point out that live events are one of the main secondary uses of theaters - the Metropolitan Opera, sports events, corporate teleconferences, etc., as well as "pre-show" material. The likelihood of any of these things requiring or even being available in anything other than HD video is rather small, at least for the next few years. That's why just about every auditorium already has an HD projector that they use now for this purpose. The main use of the Red server that I can see would be for private, one-off rental screenings by indies, where security isn't an issue and it's something many theaters will currently do already. If the box is cheap enough, it could find placement in those venues.

But I think Mark really meant what I responded to in the first post...

 

[Meryem Ersoz]

Actually, if Jim can find a way to work with Mark Cuban, or someone like him, who owns an established theater chain and has a futurist mindset and passion for gadgetry, then I am betting industry transformation could happen sooner than later...

...in fact, my suspicion is that Jim wouldn't be dropping hints about why he believes "the future is 4K" unless he already had such an alliance. That RED RAY in the case at the RED user party looked pretty ready for prime time, but I'm guessing there is some behind-the-scenes maneuvering that will accompany its announcement. There will be a champion for this technology as well, like Jackson and Soderbergh were to RED ONE, only in the distribution chain.

I think Jim learned a lesson about doing things outside of industry standards with RED ONE. RED has learned how to integrate a lot of innovative thinking into a camera system that will work well with others. I think the "do it for the little guy and the big guys will follow" model has been flipped on its head, now that Jim's ability to deliver is proven and he is closer to the ear of the top of the food chain. Instead, it's "do it at the highest possible levels and deliver it to everybody." At standards that exceed what is currently possible but integrate industry needs.

...Mike Most always shines a light on what those needs are...I always enjoy the education...

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

I just don't think theatrical distribution and exhibition of motion pictures from major distributors is one of them, because that ship has already sailed.

LOL!!

You are wrong.

If there is a better ship, with BETTER security, with more features, with higher image quality and at a better price point - the dominos will fall. Maybe some dominos have already fallen and nobody knows about it yet ...?

Oh, and you and I also know that the DCP format already supports 4K and has since the beginning. Not all servers do, but that's more a matter of interfaces than it is software.

Yes I do - I make 2K and 4K DCPs - and I am actually a huge fan of DCPs - I've delivered them directly to theaters for theatrical releases. So, I'm very aware of all the advantages that DCPs offer - so I'm pretty damn qualified to see advantages in another product. And Mike .... between us chickens - this is the real deal.

I'll let RED speak to features of their unreleased products - that's not my place and I consider myself privileged to have early access. Suffice to say ... RED is a bigger company that it was even six months ago. They CONTINUE to expand their team with dynamic, brilliant engineers - and they are playing for keeps.

 

[Meryem Ersoz]

LOL!!

Maybe some dominos have already fallen and nobody knows about it yet ...?

That's exactly what I think - the continued assertion at the RED event that "4K is the future" seemed to come from a place of knowledge, not hope, as if something unseen to the rest of us is already a done deal...

That was probably my biggest excitement at the RED event - not what was displayed but the subtle but clear hints regarding delivery and that RED RAY in the box that nobody talked about - but clearly seemed pretty ready to go, unlike its previous publicly displayed incarnations.

 

[Joseph Hutson]

For photos, here they are...

More pics at my Facebook...

 

[M Most]

LOL!!

You are wrong. .

Not yet, I'm not.

Only time will tell who is right and who is wrong. Neither of us live in the future. I don't make pronouncements until things are fact. And right now, the fact is that the DCP system is the current and established distribution standard, deeply entrenched, universally supported, and completely proven. Neither one of us know if or whether that can or will change, regardless of how much Red might want it to.

As I said, time will tell.

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

Not yet, I'm not.

Just keep saying that. Things change Mike.

"Current and established standard" ..... is the antithesis of technological developments.

Several "current and established standards" include mechanical hard drives, Flash, and shooting motion picture film on episodic television.

Someone has to be enthusiastic about the future. The future gets me out of bed in the morning. I like to speak enthusiastically about technology based industry change - what I believe in - because too many people are threatened by change.

I embrace it.

 

[Steven Caesare]

The likelihood of any of these things requiring or even being available in anything other than HD video is rather small, at least for the next few years....

What we really need is an inexpensive 4K+ acquisition, editing, and mastering pipeline... too bad nothin.... HEY WAIT!
:sifone:

But I think Mark really meant what I responded to in the first post...

Perhaps so, but I suspect that there may be some compelling reasons that a significantly cheaper, yet as fully functional, alternative might cause even some of the "big boys" to find some significant usage for it.

-sc

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

Neither of us live in the future.

Do you have kids? Then you live in the future.

 

[M Most]

"Current and established standard" ..... is the antithesis of technological developments.

Only if that standard is designed around closed, proprietary formats and didn't take into account the ability to accommodate wider color spaces and different resolutions. The DCP is not in that category. I don't know about Red Ray...

Someone has to be enthusiastic about the future. The future gets me out of bed in the morning. I like to speak enthusiastically about technology based industry change - what I believe in - because too many people are threatened by change.

I embrace it.

And you know I do too. I've never been "threatened by change," in fact, I've been an implementer of change for most of my career. Being enthusiastic about the future doesn't mean one company has a monopoly on it. And it doesn't mean that already forward thinking standards that were designed to accommodate future developments are already outdated. It's one thing to be enthusiastic, it's another to be dismissive of things that are already in place and working simply because they're already in place and working. I look at things, evaluate them, and form opinions based on what I see, as do you. But there's a lot more to getting industry wide acceptance for a standard than simply declaring your own product to be the new standard. And there's a lot more to DCP's than just effective compression. As for right or wrong, these are terms that shouldn't be used in this context. There's what is and what isn't, and what will be accepted and what won't. What you and I (and, quite frankly, Red) think doesn't really matter other than as a fun game of conjecture.

 

[M Most]

Perhaps so, but I suspect that there may be some compelling reasons that a significantly cheaper, yet as fully functional, alternative might cause even some of the "big boys" to find some significant usage for it.

You can buy a DCP server for under $15K, you can build one yourself for less than that, and the tools for making DCP's run the gamut from full, JPEG2000 accelerated systems down to open source tools that are free.

This has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with cost.

 

[Steven Caesare]

You can buy a DCP server for under $15K, you can build one yourself for less than that, and the tools for making DCP's run the gamut from full, JPEG2000 accelerated systems down to open source tools that are free.

This has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with cost.

A 4K DCP server for under $15K? hardware and software, ready to go? With enough storage to hold a feature-length film and the requisite output cards to drive 4K projectors? I've not priced them, but had not been under the impression they were that inexpensive.

There's a thread here on Reduser that, if that poster's experience is anything near typical, indicates the "freely avialable tools" route is anything but straightforward.

-sc

 

[M Most]

A 4K DCP server for under $15K? hardware and software, ready to go? With enough storage to hold a feature-length film and the requisite output cards to drive 4K projectors? I've not priced them, but had not been under the impression they were that inexpensive.

There's a thread here on Reduser that, if that poster's experience is anything near typical, indicates the "freely avialable tools" route is anything but straightforward.

I didn't say it was straightforward, or that you didn't have to know what you're doing. I said it wasn't about cost. Quite frankly, in the professional world, it's not a requirement that everything be simple enough for a child to do it. It's generally assumed that people doing this level of work understand it. I don't think that's asking a lot.

As for storage requirements, a typical DCP is under 150GB. At today's storage prices, that's not very demanding in terms of either hardware or its cost.

 

[Jody Neckles]

I was at RED in OC in December. I also was lucky enough to see 4K material projected from a RED Ray at 15mb/s.... The images were mind blowing.

It occurred to me RED is much more than just a camera company..... just think about what can be done with a 15mb/s data stream.... certainly I believe the biggest shockwaves are still to come and i'm betting its got nothing to do with cameras.....

 

[Deanan]

What you and I (and, quite frankly, Red) think doesn't really matter other than as a fun game of conjecture.

Not conjecture but actively participating and driving change... along many others that we work with from studios/post/directors/DPs/distributors/manufacturers that are pushing 4k into real projects.

A good analogy is how top athletes anticipate and act on where they need to be rather than act solely in the present.

 

[Steven Caesare]

I didn't say it was straightforward, or that you didn't have to know what you're doing. I said it wasn't about cost. Quite frankly, in the professional world, it's not a requirement that everything be simple enough for a child to do it. It's generally assumed that people doing this level of work understand it. I don't think that's asking a lot.

As for storage requirements, a typical DCP is under 150GB. At today's storage prices, that's not very demanding in terms of either hardware or its cost.

I'm not suggesting it need be easy enough for a child to understand it. But clearly there is a cost and time (and time is money) associated with high-end distibution today, and if something comes along that is simpler/cheaper yet provides the functionality necessary, it often supplants the more expensive/cumbersome predecessor. Or at least finds a home right along side it.

Do you have a link for a sub $15K DCP server that does 4K? I've done some online searching, but haven't found one.

-sc

 

[Scott Snare]

A device like this will be a game changer for the festival marketplace. Having high quality delivery on a portable device will reduce costs for both the film maker and the festival. Both want high quality, low costs and flexible presentation alternatives.

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

Suffice to say ... RED is a bigger company that it was even six months ago. They CONTINUE to expand their team with dynamic, brilliant engineers - and they are playing for keeps.

fuck yeah man. 4K digital distro is where its at fo shizzle.

Mike, please think about it from the EXHIBITORS mindset for one second.

The experience is all about the sizzle brother. Especially if it brings more peeps and lets me sell more $5 cokes and $5 popcorns...know what Im saying?

right now its 3D,

But next is 4K is where my $ is riding and the shit (even Arri) is getting cheaper

Rock on

 

[Jason Diamond]

Do you have kids? Then you live in the future.

Regardless of technology this is one of the truest statements I've heard in along time.

I live in the future every day... The history of the future is on the wall.

 

[M Most]

Not conjecture but actively participating and driving change... along many others that we work with from studios/post/directors/DPs/distributors/manufacturers that are pushing 4k into real projects.

I understand, and I applaud the effort. However, allow me to ask the question(s): Is Red prepared to open source their codec? Does the system handle any current or future color space? Is the security model based on open, documented standards? Because quite frankly, I just don't see the DCI consortium members going for anything controlled by only one company, or anything that isn't completely documented in freely available documentation.

I have no problem with pushing things forward. But quite frankly, the current format already supports what you seem to pushing for, and it fulfills all of the criteria I just mentioned. If I'm wrong, I'd really like to know where.