Red Raven vs Red Scarlet X with Dragon 6k sensor

[Rod Lopez]

Hello Everybody,
I'm on the market for a Red camera. My options are down to a Red Raven or a Red Scarlet X with Dragon Sensor, both used. My budget will not allow me to buy a higher end Red. I'm buying from a local company so I know both cameras are in great shape. However, I cannot decide which camera is a better buy. I shoot a lot of Commercial work, short films, music videos, corporate promos, etc. Both cameras packages are priced the same so there's no price difference. So I would really appreciate some feedback from some of you veteran Red users. Currently, I shoot on the Ursa mini 4.6k, Panasonic GH5s and Sony a7R II. Thank you in advance.

 

[BrendanLeahy]

If you're on a budget, get the Red Scarlet-X because accessories are going for pretty good prices on the reduser used market.

However, just know that they haven't upgraded the firmware since last December I believe - it's ended there because RED is committed to DSMC2 now.

Raven will allow you to get into DSMC2, record proxies (I believe?) and have a lighter/faster/more up-to-date package.

 

[Rod Lopez]

Thanks Brendan! This actually helps a lot. If you were going on image quality alone, which camera do you recommend? Just curious.

 

[Björn Benckert]

I think I would go for the raven its a cool camera.

The only thing that speaks for scarlet is the different mount options and low cost accessories. But on the other hand the accessories you get for you raven are more future proof.


Picture vice the dragon raven sensor and bit rate is simply better. Even though I used scarlet X as B cam a lot of times and if shot well it can also look quite stellar.

So none of the two is a bad option if price is right.

 

[Misha Engel]

Hello Everybody,
I'm on the market for a Red camera. My options are down to a Red Raven or a Red Scarlet X with Dragon Sensor, both used. My budget will not allow me to buy a higher end Red. I'm buying from a local company so I know both cameras are in great shape. However, I cannot decide which camera is a better buy. I shoot a lot of Commercial work, short films, music videos, corporate promos, etc. Both cameras packages are priced the same so there's no price difference. So I would really appreciate some feedback from some of you veteran Red users. Currently, I shoot on the Ursa mini 4.6k, Panasonic GH5s and Sony a7R II. Thank you in advance.

What are your goals with the RED camera, that you can't do with your current camera's?

 

[Rod Lopez]

Thanks! I think I agree with you on all fronts.

 

[Sabovic Adis]

Does the Ursa do full color, 444?

 

[Nick Morrison]

I'd get a Raven. It's DSMC2, and would allow you to use your AKS on any other DSMC2 camera. Also the slow-mo on Raven is great.

 

[David Peterson]

Raven gives you the newer DSMC2 but limits you to EF only (a deal breaker for some, a non-issue for others).

Scarlet Dragon is now "unsupported" but means you can pick up accessories for much cheaper secondhand.

Does the Ursa do full color, 444?

Raw and 444 are both options with all the URSA cameras.

And yeah, if the OP is on a tight budget then I'd wonder why not just stick with the URSA Mini 4.6K? And put the money into lights/lenses/etc instead?

 

[Sabovic Adis]

Thanks, David!

 

[Mike P.]

What are your goals with the RED camera, that you can't do with your current camera's?

This... Because it honestly seems like more of a lateral move, than an upgrade (from a BUMP4.6k). I think you'll be hard-pressed to notice a huge difference between the BUMP4.6k and either of those RED cameras.

That said, out of the two, I'd opt for Raven if only because it's resale value will be much better in ~2years... Plus Raven nets you 120fps at 4.5k WS, which is double the framerate of the 4.6k. But the 4.6k is ~APS-H/s35+, whereas the Raven sensor is actually similar in size as the GH5 (but doesn't have the adaptability/focal reducer options of the m43 mount)...

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if the BUMP in 2k/120fps crop mode is a comparable sensor size to the Raven 4k (albeit half the resolution... but still as sharp, because no olpf... but also has potential aliasing because it'd be 2k...).

...tough call. hahah.

 

[Misha Engel]

The Red Scarlet X is just old and not upto modern day sub $10k 4k camera's in almost everyway.

The only reason I can think of to pick the Raven over the UMP is frame rate.

I would forget the resale value argument in this price range, camera's are almost improving by the day at the moment .

UMP is equal or cheaper/better than the Raven in every other aspect.

You can always fit the UMP with an OLPF http://www.mosaicengineering.com/products/vaf/bm/um.html or http://rawlite.com/.

UMP($10k) is becoming a pretty good poor man's ARRI AMIRA Premium($44k), with almost the same DR at 2k/1080p(14 stops) and a sharper 4k/uhd image de-bayered output.

 

[Scot Yount]

Both Cameras record compressed raw .r3d. Both are still great tools. For me, it would come down to what I wanted to run for glass. Raven is pretty limited in that regard, and the Scarlet-X can run any mount and there are much more possibilities for glass. Misha says the camera is old, but so what? It records the same codec as the brand new ones. I have a 2011 Scarlet-MX and it still works just fine. My Helium Weapon gives me more trouble than it does. I would get the older camera, spend as little on accessories as possible. Get some good jobs, make some money, learn a lot, then move up. YMMV.