Red Raven uses upgraded Dragon sensor?

[Note Suwanchote]

I've heard it doesn't but I've heard it does (a lot more), so to confirm the Raven uses the updated sensor found in the Weapon?

 

[Daniel Reed]

From what i understand the Dragon sensor has not changed, only the size on the sensor cut from the fab waffers

 

[Akin A]

I've heard it doesn't but I've heard it does (a lot more), so to confirm the Raven uses the updated sensor found in the Weapon?

If you're asking if Raven uses cut outs of the 8K Weapon that didn't pass QA (rumor started during the Raven announcement)...

RAVEN has all new bits inside.. the sensor is new and not a masked hand me down, the boards aren't recycled they are new, the mechanicals are all new.

If you're asking in general if the sensor is the same sensor as Weapon Dragon, then yes, there is only one Dragon sensor. They just come in different sizes, 4.5K (Raven), 6K and soon 8K.

 

[Nathan DuMoulin]

My understanding is that the sensor is the same, however the improved processing of the Weapon body (common to Raven), has improved the capabilities of the sensor (one stop cleaner in the shadows, higher DR, etc).

 

[Note Suwanchote]

If you're asking if Raven uses cut outs of the 8K Weapon that didn't pass QA (rumor started during the Raven announcement)...



If you're asking in general if the sensor is the same sensor as Weapon Dragon, then yes, there is only one Dragon sensor. They just come in different sizes, 4.5K (Raven), 6K and soon 8K.

I was asking if the Raven uses the improved capabilities of the sensor (which is what nathan is referencing below with improved shadows, dr and such).

 

[Note Suwanchote]

My understanding is that the sensor is the same, however the improved processing of the Weapon body (common to Raven), has improved the capabilities of the sensor (one stop cleaner in the shadows, higher DR, etc).

Yep that's I'm hoping for.

 

[Marcus Friedlander]

I was asking if the Raven uses the improved capabilities of the sensor (which is what nathan is referencing below with improved shadows, dr and such).

This is kind of nitpicking but I think the delineation is important enough to mention that this is not exactly correct.

RAVEN, like WEAPON, does not have improved sensor capabilities over the EPIC DRAGON, because the sensor is the same DRAGON sensor that is in the EPIC DRAGON body. The RAVEN, like WEAPON, however, DOES have improved internal electronics over the EPIC body. As a result, it can process that data off the dragon sensor more efficiently then the EPIC body, therefore resulting in a better overall image.

This is delineation is important because the tick-tock philosophy is at the core of RED's business model and as a result in the way they design their cameras.

 

[Phil Holland]

Sensor technology is Dragon. Things "around" the sensor however have been improved. Processing, optical path, etc. This equates to visible and noticeable improvements.

 

[Marcus Friedlander]

Sensor technology is Dragon. Things "around" the sensor however have been improved. Processing, optical path, etc. This equates to visible and noticeable improvements.

Hahah that's a much better explanation. Thanks Phil!

 

[PatrickFaith]

Sensor technology is Dragon. Things "around" the sensor however have been improved. Processing, optical path, etc. This equates to visible and noticeable improvements.

I have some old red parts where the mount metal got metallic purple/black - which definitely modified sensor performance ... Is that the type of thing you mean by optical path?

 

[Phil Holland]

I have some old red parts where the mount metal got metallic purple/black - which definitely modified sensor performance ... Is that the type of thing you mean by optical path?

Sort of, but if you look closer inside the "sensor box" area you will see some very wild changes if comparing Weapon/DSMC2 to Epic and Scarlet original DSMC bodies.

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Would be interesting to compare the images from the various Dragon sensor hosts: Scarlet, Epic, Weapon CF, Weapon Mg, Raven, Scarlet-W at equal sensor rasters.

There are two major variables I would expect to impact the results: compression ratio and in camera processing muscle.

The max write rates are in RED's spec pages, IIRC the CF Weapon can do 300MB/s, the Raven & Scarlet-W 140MB/s and the OG Scarlets 70MB/s. On smaller capture windows at sync speeds (24,25,30), say 4KHD or less, the differences are mostly for pixel peepers - when you start talking about 5K or higher and over crank - then the higher spec options really show their mettle.

What I don't know, and would love to, is how much difference there is between the various DSMC2 offerings in terms of in camera processing, and more to the point, how that impacts the image itself. If you aimed a Raven and a CF Weapon at the same scene, let's make it something with a good potential source of CMOS smear, at the full chip format of the Raven - matched on the Weapon - identical compression ratio... Would they look essentially the same to the naked eye on a 1080 display? What about a difference matte?

Cheers - #19

 

[Elsie N]

I'm also curious if the new Standard OLPF performs exactly the same on the Weaponized Dragon sensor as it does on the Epic Dragon sensor?