Red Ranger - real world opinion

[Thomas Hogben]

As the prices of the Rangers (specifically the Gemini) have fallen to a very accessible point, I am interested to hear from anyone with real-world hands-on experience:

How long is the boot-up time? do you find this limiting? (Coming from C300mk3 etc with the near-instant boot I fear this aspect)

Although Red don't recommend changing the lens mount from the shimmed PL, has anyone done this? is it possible?

Whats the power draw like on the Ranger, compared to the standard Gemini? How many V-locks would do you for a day of Documentary shooting?

Any other specific quirks? Reliability issues?

With some kicking about around the 10k mark now, it feels like although a little long in the tooth, the Gemini Ranger could be a good option for a documentary we are shooting over the next 18 months. Any insights welcome..

 

[William Long]

Hi Thomas,

I can't answer your questions yet, but I have gone down this road trading in my Dragon-X 6K with all its accessories for a Gemini Ranger. For my purposes, this is the perfect documentary camera which compliments my Komodo. The low light sensor, the quieter fan, the XLR audio connection all make it perfect for interviews, natural history hide work and I like its extra weight and balance.

The EF mount is not recommended officially by RED but they do acknowledge in the PDF Ranger manual: "Other RED lens mounts are mechanically compatible, but may cause focus accuracy issues." I also know of people using the ranger with the EF mount, so it does work.

Obviously, you need to check yourself but as Björn Benckert pointed out in another thread; "The only risk you're running is to have your back focus slightly off. Something you will notice if you got EF lenses that are correctly shimmed. If using normal EF lenses with not so accurate markings etc then I would not worry much, likely your back focus is 'good enough' to pull focus by viewing the image or such. So no risk in trying."

I pull focus by viewing but I will nevertheless be testing every lens beforehand.

 

[Thomas Hogben]

Thanks William, i will look up that thread from Bjorn. Yeh, it feels like a solid option for us, for this project. Just so many good cameras nowadays it's always a challenge to make a decision.

 

[Luka Sanader]

As someone who owned and shoot DSMC2 from the begging and as someone who used them all extensively i can say that Ranger was probably most rounded camera in the entire lineup. For my personal style of shooting and types of projects i do Ranger Monstro was ideal camera. let me try to answer your questions:
- EF i have no experience with and i cant tell you
- bootup time, as all the other performance is identical to DSMC2 Unified so no difference in that regard
- Power draw on ranger is huge. camera and all the added modules are dragging a lot of power and if you plug EVF, Monitor, Teradeck and focus motors you can expect about 2h form a 270Wh battery. To be hobest that is the same case with my DSMC2 Monstro with all that jazz plugged in.

mow my personal points on pros and cons:

Ranger Pro:
- Comes all equipped and all you ever need is there. add Revolva, EVF and Monitor and you are good to go
- improved Audio (if you care and i dont)
- Better cooling, less fan noise and better ergonomic
I used to joke that Red and Amira meet in the bar and had one night stand baster child that would be Gemini

Ranger con:
- No sensor backfocusing and for us shooting anamorphic this was ultra cool. Some say that there was OLPF issue as well but i cant say that
- if you SDI board blows (and it can happend on DSMC2) your camera is decommissioned unile DSMC2 that will let you change the module
- integrated battery plate was always odd decision to me and for us that travel alot this is major pain in the neck. I was shooting with 85k camera (at the time) and i had to use V to Gold adapteurs that would make illegal shutdowns all the time. Its bit upsetting.
- sidkick needed major change to be really useful control option, before it was integrated in the Ranger.


to conclude if i had to pick if i would buy used Monstro DSMC2 or Ranger Monstro i would always go for Ranger. As for Gemini i am probably worst person on a planet to ask as i hate Gemini with passion. i find it to be ugliest Red sensor ever

just my 2c

 

[William Long]

From respective manuals:


POWER CONSUMPTION - RED RANGER GEMINI
The camera draws approximately 4.2 A (63 W) when configured with the DSMC2 RED Touch 7.0" LCD and RED MINI-MAG[SUP]®[/SUP] 512GB.

Under typical conditions batteries provide the following operating time:

• REDVOLT-V: Powers the camera and accessories for approximately 24 minutes.
• RED BRICK: Powers the camera and accessories for approximately 96 minutes.

POWER CONSUMPTION - RED GEMINI
The camera draws approximately 3.3 A (50 W) when configured with the DSMC2 Base Expander, DSMC2 RED Touch 7.0" LCD, and RED MINI-MAG[SUP]®[/SUP] 512GB.

Under typical conditions batteries provide the following operating time:

• REDVOLT: Powers the camera and accessories for approximately 30 minutes.
• REDVOLT-V: Powers the camera and accessories for approximately 35 minutes.
• REDVOLT XL: Powers the camera and accessories for approximately 90 minutes.
• RED BRICK: Powers the camera and accessories for approximately 120 minutes.

 

[Zack Birlew]

The RED Rangers are pretty cool, I haven't handled one in person but coming from my RED One MX which was a joy to use on my first feature, I much prefer an "all-in-one" camera. I even tried to nab an 8K Ranger myself at a recent broadcast sale, got bid out majorly at the last minute though but, in any case, if I had to decide between a normal RED camera versus a Ranger version of it, I'd pick the Ranger every time.

As for batteries, I think you just have to take it as a given that you'll have a mix of light and heavy batteries and, thankfully, there even is an option for small REDVolt batteries, my RED One MX just takes bricks lol!

 

[Thomas Hogben]

Thank you all for you insights.

yeh, the power consumption is considerable, c300mk3 pulls less than half that. I wasn’t aware the Reds where so thirsty. The Gemini Ranger pulls almost the same as a Alexa mini LF, and that’s been a challenge in the past when rigged up with accessories.

That coupled with the need to leave the camera running more due to the 30sec + boot time makes it a challenge to justify for the way I work.

I sometimes wonder if I want a Red more than I actually need one…

 

[William Long]

... I sometimes wonder if I want a Red more than I actually need one…

Yes, there can be a big difference between 'want' and 'need'. We often confuse one for the other.
But I like the RED image and would personally choose it over the Canon.

 

[M Harvey]

That coupled with the need to leave the camera running more due to the 30sec + boot time makes it a challenge to justify for the way I work.
I sometimes wonder if I want a Red more than I actually need one…

Haven't worked with Ranger, but I'll just comment: I own a Sony FS7 as well as a Komodo, and also rent Arri or other Red. So I might have been in a somewhat similar place to you.

While I initially thought I'd sell the FS7 when I bought the Komodo, I've hung onto it for a number of reasons. The #1 reason is that producers still ask for the FS7-- that's typically for corporate/educational stuff, and typically because they don't know Red an/or want smaller files. Beyond that, if we exclude for this discussion the differences that Ranger eliminates (e.g. XLR audio), I choose the Komodo or rent a camera when it comes to pure image quality, and I have just gotten used to dealing with the other aspects that come with that: carrying more and larger batteries, and significantly larger file sizes.

In short, I think that for most purposes, you'll find that you quickly get used to the things that come along with Red as part of your workflow. If you haven't already, I'd recommend at least renting a Red for a day and trying it alongside your Canon. Evaluate the files and see if the difference (in quality but also flexibility e.g. to change color temp and crop) is worth it to you.

All that said, if I were on a doc job that was all about jumping out of a van with the camera on shoulder and already rolling, I'd probably lean towards the Canon or my Sony.

 

[Aaron michaels]

New cameras come out all the time, so you need to choose which camera has everything you need on it and if it can stand up to whatever else you want to shoot later. I always download PDFs on the camera and what youtube for footage quality. the only review I trust is those that show actual good footage. That's just me, I own my 3 dream cameras over the years and refuse to part with them because they have everything I need in them.