RED Projector...

[Wayne Morellini]

Theater and home. Sooner rather than later.

Jim

How soon, how much ?

Just saw the projector today. Everything they are saying is true.

Images are Cibachrome vivid. 3D is super bright with no active glasses.

NO FLICKER!!!

Also--3D has an excellent field of view. I went right up to the screen and felt like I could put my hand inside the screen--there was that much depth AND that was me standing off to the side.

The simplicity and the scalability of the system blew me away. Thanks to Jarred for accommodating me and kudos to everyone who has worked on this project so far. I can't wait for this to be released--it puts everything else I've ever seen projected to shame.

Torrey
-----------------------------------------------
Torrey Loomis
President & CEO - Silverado Systems, Inc.
(916) 760-0032 • FAX (916) 404-5258
torrey@silverado.cc

Web http://www.Silverado.cc
Blog http://Studiobuilder.tv/
Twitter http://www.twitter.com/silveradosys

Common Torrey, spill the beans, did you have to wear 'glasses' or just stand there staring naked before the 3d screen ? And, how soon and how much?

It's for whomever wants to use it for whatever purpose, be it in the home, cinema, post-production house, or other places.

I'm very interested to hear more about the RED projector, particularly in terms of color accuracy and overall longevity.

Yes, longevity? I might be wanting a ten year warranty.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

I want to get a cinena into my region, as we are expecting 80k+ people around my region in coming decades, and for indie screenings. Does this projector support digital cinema distribution formats, or at least a red ray version?

At this time the sheer cost of projectors prevents minor players groom going digital. The market must be worth thousands of sales from the smaller cinenma players.

 

[Eric Lange]

It’s so rare technologically and product wise that anything so significant comes along…

I wonder at for example at five meters distance what the size of the laser spot is?

The Canadians with CNRC and Regean(sp?) Barabeau have been at the fore front of tri-chromatic laser scanning for decades and surface color correction/laser surface interaction.

It’s funny though that one could conceivably jerry rig your Red projector into a tri-chromatic 3d laser scanner using a synchronized off axis single camera. That would be the ultimate “MAKE” project.

Do you guys at Red have a lab where you get to play around with crazy stuff like this?

Cheers,

Eric

 

[Wayne Morellini]

Hi Eric, do you have links for this, you can guess why?

 

[Michel Hafner]

I hope Red also supports active glasses unless their passive system does not require a screen that maintains polarity of light. I have no such screen
and would have to replace mine. That is not an option to me as long as there are no accoustically transparent screens of that kind without holes (e.g. woven).
Or no 3D with this projector which is not really an option either.

 

[Eric Lange]

I hope Red also supports active glasses unless their passive system does not require a screen that maintains polarity of light. I have no such screen
and would have to replace mine. That is not an option to me as long as there are no accoustically transparent screens of that kind without holes (e.g. woven).
Or no 3D with this projector which is not really an option either.

From much earlier posts where some serious tech heads chimed in I have this impression that the glasses you use with this system may not be active or passive POL. Some folks (I dig up who perhaps) were talking about highly tuned blocking filters. The glasses appear completely transparent but the left lens completely blocks the right channel and vice versa passively without switching or usuing polorization, but has excellent brightness and contrast ratio. I’m sure… (kinda waffly sure….) active and passive arrangements would be possible with a “theoretical” laser projector but it seems that “invisible” very narrow bandwidth blocking filter approach might trump all of them, so perhaps no special screen required etc. In fact as I understand it a lower gain screen might be preferable. Once again implausible sounding technologies turn out to be THE BEST!

I just hope the projector can easily eat a quad buffered (type) frame sequential signal, i.e. the same output that you would get from a high end NVIDIA card (and the like) that would be outputting to a notional active systems. I would expect the RED projectors IF they are as claimed which I trust that they are, will wind up in a lot of VR installations/simulators. I’m looking forward to that, or helping make that happen.

Cheers,

Eric

 

[Eric Lange]

Hi Eric, do you have links for this, you can guess why?

Yup if it’s not on the internet then it can’t possibly exist (right?) (he, he…).

Most of the references I have are in various journals and proceedings and books of the last 20 years, but maybe I scratch around on the …InTerWEb (thingy)…


The principals of off axis 3d laser scanning have been known for several decades (at least). A laser scans the surface in a series of structured “slices”, the camera looks at the profile slices in turn from a determined (off axis) angle for example 30-45 degrees to the scanned surface and therefore the X, Y and Z of each scanned profile can be computed. Obviously there is fair amount of calibration and synchronization required. However I like the idea or possibilities that such a “projector” might offer as you could have a combination of structured light patterns projected (for 3d machine vision applications) combined with straight off axis laser scanning/direct shape recovery. If they, RED had a SDK for their laser projector you could go absolutely nuts (in the lab). Off axis and structured light type of 3d scanners are much more accurate in Z than time of flight Lidar type scanners like Cyra/Leica Geosystems 3d scanners. It’s kinda freaky too as you could re-project a 3d adjusted image from the camera in a negative or color reversed form back onto to the object, and use that as a basis of analysis for what has been missed “prompting” further processing and refinement. Given the “playful” and experimental nature of the guys at RED I’m SURE that they have laser projected onto all kinds of 3d surfaces, just for the hell of it.

Projecting it onto reflective and transparent surfaces such as water or a disco ball would be pretty trippy. I can already see the tripped out rave venue of the near future replete with RED 3d projectors. That would be cool to project imagery into into a swimming pool (if that would work) and shoot swimmers underwater (cough.. I mean dynamically photograph), (very James bond title sequnce). (Of course the laser might all bounce off the surface etc. or not?)

BTW the work of Regean Barabeau (sp) [A Canadian] are particularly note worthy as he solved (as part of a physics Ph.D) how to recover accurate color data from tri-chromatic laser sources interacting with different slopes and reflectivity on various 3d surfaces. Without these computations the recovered surface colors appear as 3d “solorized” bands as the laser tends to sharply reflect at certain critical surface angles. An amazing achievement really. This was figured out at least 20 years ago.

 

[David Rasberry]

There is another possibility too. Casio is producing a low cost consumer projector that uses a laser engine to drive a phosphorescent light emitter for the luminance channel of a 3 lcd projector. 3000 lumen output with a life to half brightness of 20k hours. They use hb leds for red and blue channels, but a similar setup could drive a 3-chip projector to much higher brightness levels with 3 lasers.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

Yup if it’s not on the internet then it can’t possibly exist (right?) (he, he…).

Most of the references I have are in various journals and proceedings and books of the last 20 years, but maybe I scratch around on the …InTerWEb (thingy)…


The principals of off axis 3d laser scanning have been known for several decades (at least). A laser scans the surface in a series of structured “slices”, the camera looks at the profile slices in turn from a determined (off axis) angle for example 30-45 degrees to the scanned surface and therefore the X, Y and Z of each scanned profile can be computed. Obviously there is fair amount of calibration and synchronization required. However I like the idea or possibilities that such a “projector” might offer as you could have a combination of structured light patterns projected (for 3d machine vision applications) combined with straight off axis laser scanning/direct shape recovery. If they, RED had a SDK for their laser projector you could go absolutely nuts (in the lab). Off axis and structured light type of 3d scanners are much more accurate in Z than time of flight Lidar type scanners like Cyra/Leica Geosystems 3d scanners. It’s kinda freaky too as you could re-project a 3d adjusted image from the camera in a negative or color reversed form back onto to the object, and use that as a basis of analysis for what has been missed “prompting” further processing and refinement. Given the “playful” and experimental nature of the guys at RED I’m SURE that they have laser projected onto all kinds of 3d surfaces, just for the hell of it.

Projecting it onto reflective and transparent surfaces such as water or a disco ball would be pretty trippy. I can already see the tripped out rave venue of the near future replete with RED 3d projectors. That would be cool to project imagery into into a swimming pool (if that would work) and shoot swimmers underwater (cough.. I mean dynamically photograph), (very James bond title sequnce). (Of course the laser might all bounce off the surface etc. or not?)

BTW the work of Regean Barabeau (sp) [A Canadian] are particularly note worthy as he solved (as part of a physics Ph.D) how to recover accurate color data from tri-chromatic laser sources interacting with different slopes and reflectivity on various 3d surfaces. Without these computations the recovered surface colors appear as 3d “solorized” bands as the laser tends to sharply reflect at certain critical surface angles. An amazing achievement really. This was figured out at least 20 years ago.

Never mind, might be a few less patents to apply for in that, though one of them was not mentioned. I don't keep up with everything, I just invent things.

I hope Red also supports active glasses unless their passive system does not require a screen that maintains polarity of light. I have no such screen
and would have to replace mine. That is not an option to me as long as there are no accoustically transparent screens of that kind without holes (e.g. woven).
Or no 3D with this projector which is not really an option either.

There was a ultrasonic cross beamed sound system invented late 80's or so, that can form the sound in mid air infront of the screen. There has also been flat panel systems that produce the sound ontop of the display, but I do not know what the quality is like by now (the ultrasonic one is apparently excellent).

As Eric said for the screen, but I spent significant time inventing solutions to the 3d problem. One solution was to make the screen do the 3d separation, no glasses needed. I talk about it now, as a TV sales person, believe or not, told me that Apple is planning to release such a laser based screen system shortly. Normally I would be more wary of such discussion, but he got the terminal health of Steve Jobs right, but if we don't see it this year as he indicated it would be out by now, he was probably being silly (politely).

 

[Wayne Morellini]

Jim, will it have an upscaler to 4k? I want to play my blu-ray version of Kick Ass

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Jim, will it have an upscaler to 4k? I want to play my blu-ray version of Kick Ass

I'd rather just have a 4K version of Kick-Ass...

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

man Jeff. i'm watching this thread like a HAWK... I have a good feeling about this kit... with the EPIC 617 and 4 Laser Projectors and 4 white walls... digital signage = game over

 

[Wayne Morellini]

I'd rather just have a 4K version of Kick-Ass...

Too shaves, Jeff. But where do we buy one . The upscalers will have to do for now (unless Redray 4k at 50fps+). I have worked out the delay on Red ray a while ago, was going to post a thread on it. It is likely that it has to do (apart from licensing and negotiations) waiting for cheap consumer hardware to play it. Encoding is not a problem, you can get a big honking PC with some big honking cards to encode. For viewing, you are talking cheap PC's and/or consoles, and cheap hardware for playback boxes, with hardware prices preferably $100 or less in cost for the processing hardware, $30 dollers if you are really serious about volume production to take the market (for $300 players). So cheap CPUs and CPUs have to be able to handle it for PC, good Gpu for new, Apple tv and iPad etc. There are a few other processing options for cheap players.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

man Jeff. i'm watching this thread like a HAWK... I have a good feeling about this kit... with the EPIC 617 and 4 Laser Projectors and 4 white walls... digital signage = game over

Hear ya, +1.

 

[Remy Carter]

Compression for online streaming

Compression for online streaming

I keep thinking RedRay could make them a couple of billion dollars... the tech. I mean, with RedRay data-rates you can STREAM 4k 3D, even with a crappy internet connection!

This has been one of my hopes for the tech ever since Graeme had mentioned the bending of physics to get the compression done. With this ability you could revolutionize the VOD industry. If I was inside at RED I would negotiate a deal with Netflix or Apple to create the ultimate VOD device and service offering 1080p streaming delivery on low bandwidth systems. It has been my key piece in what could be the future of high quality film delivery to homes. With bandwidth increasing 4K delivery would be just around the corner.

 

[J Taylor]

The thought of RED EPIC footage being projected in 4K is almost to much to bare...almost.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

This has been one of my hopes for the tech ever since Graeme had mentioned the bending of physics to get the compression done.

Then there should be a lot more compression.

 

[Corey Smith]

Jim, will it have an upscaler to 4k? I want to play my blu-ray version of Kick Ass

It's really hard to imagine that they would build such a projector and leave out something so important as an upscaler, especially in the home version......assuming it is also 4k. Kick Ass is erm....Kick Ass, btw. hehe. I would love to see it on the Red projector. I think it would take a Red Projector to see much of an upgrade, because the JVC RS15 Kicks Ass. :yesnod: I'm looking forward to seeing what the native contrast will be, ansi contrast and lumen level.

 

[Michel Hafner]

I'd rather just have a 4K version of Kick-Ass...

Won't happen as with practically all other films with a 2K DI. Too expensive to rescan and redo post production. And the difference between 2K and 4K with 35mm is rather small anyway.

 

[Kyle Wright]

I'd rather just have a 4K version of Kick-Ass...

And I'm hoping for a 4K version of Road to Perdition, just for the rain scene alone! And maybe a 4K Seven Samurai, and Baraka, and...