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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED Projector...

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What about Schneider Patents on Laser Projector Technology? They have failed to bring it to mass market but they had some production models 5 years back. Did RED just buy them out?
The lovely thing about laser projectors -> no need to focus - even sharp on curved walls at every point - beautiful technology - I never understood why Schneider failed with it back then. Was at a screening and it was gorgeous - so I can imagine how great it is with even more rez :)
 
JD Holloway said:
For RedCode delivery to projector, only about 35 Mb/sec is required.
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After the decoding stage you need to handle uncompressed 4K RGB. So unless the decoder lives _in_ the projector feeding a fast internal connect you'll need fast external media, like Eric and Joe suggest.
 
Wolfgang Woehl said:
After the decoding stage you need to handle uncompressed 4K RGB. So unless the decoder lives _in_ the projector feeding a fast internal connect you'll need fast external media, like Eric and Joe suggest.
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Uh ... no you need a high bandwidth connection between the decoder/player and the projector. HDMI 1.4 will do, as will MiniDisplayPort, or dual 3G SDI, or 4 SDI. Of course ... SDI cables can signal faster than Rec709 specifies ... so a new standard could deliver 4K on a single SDI strand.

I'd bet on the HDMI 1.4 implementation.
 
fALk Gärtner said:
What about Schneider Patents on Laser Projector Technology? They have failed to bring it to mass market but they had some production models 5 years back. Did RED just buy them out?
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Ah, i am not the only one to know this... I worked in the official Schneider Repair Center in Switzerland back in 1996ish and even then this was a topic of wild speculation and cause for hope of a better projection future. This was 15 years ago, crazy. It is so unreal, that this idea reemerges from the almost forgotten past. It's like, everyone tried his hand with this technology, so it seemed hopeless because after more than a decade of technology demonstrators no one managed to pull it off. But then came RED, it seems. This Saga is getting better and better.
This projector will be a worthy successor for my behemoth of a CRT projector.
 
You guys should check out Microvision's Showwx pico Laser projectors. Small scanning laser projectors from the makers of fighter jet HUD's. They aren't the brightest nor the best fidelity, but damn is that laser quality interesting. Of course RED's system might not be similar at all, but I'm all for things with lasers in them ;)
 
Matthias Martin said:
Ah, i am not the only one to know this... I worked in the official Schneider Repair Center in Switzerland back in 1996ish and even then this was a topic of wild speculation and cause for hope of a better projection future. This was 15 years ago, crazy. It is so unreal, that this idea reemerges from the almost forgotten past. It's like, everyone tried his hand with this technology, so it seemed hopeless because after more than a decade of technology demonstrators no one managed to pull it off. But then came RED, it seems. This Saga is getting better and better.
This projector will be a worthy successor for my behemoth of a CRT projector.
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Really depends on how RED is implementing their projection engine. The act of projecting an image with lasers is too broad a concept to hold a patent on and has been done in many ways over many, many years. Not to mention, like you state, the Schneider patents on laser projection date back to the early to mid '90s or somewhere over 15 years ago. With no tangible product brought to market, there's a good bet those patents have expired. It's very difficult to perpetuate a patent if there is no viable product or real working concept to attach it to and most patents will expire in their initial 17 year term if that remains the case. You can extend the longevity somewhat by re-filing with new conceptual information, but this usually just buys you an extension for a few years and not a new 17 year term.

Mitsubishi was really working with laser DLP rear projection about 10 years ago, but it never took off. Saw a couple of the prototypes myself and while the brightness and saturation were superb, the "sparkle" artifacting was atrocious, not to mention several other issues that plagued their designs.

It seems that some big breakthroughs for laser projection have been made over the last year or so, and not just by RED. BARCO will be demonstrating their 4K laser 3D system in January. I don't think a few other manufacturers, like Christie, are that far off. They were talking lasers at NAB.

Mike Prevette said:
You guys should check out Microvision's Showwx pico Laser projectors. Small scanning laser projectors from the makers of fighter jet HUD's. They aren't the brightest nor the best fidelity, but damn is that laser quality interesting. Of course RED's system might not be similar at all, but I'm all for things with lasers in them ;)
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Who knows how similar they are... But I'm pretty sure RED is using a scanning laser system rather than a DMD (DLP) or LCD/LCOS projection system. Seems to make the most sense.
 
Wolfgang Woehl said:
After the decoding stage you need to handle uncompressed 4K RGB. So unless the decoder lives _in_ the projector feeding a fast internal connect you'll need fast external media, like Eric and Joe suggest.
Click to expand...


After rereading my post (and having had some sleep), I see my obvious error. Thank you, WW.
+1 for HDMI 1.4
 
I hope projector will be available mid 2013 (after Dragon programm as stated by Jim, wich, I think, could take place end 2012 for 1rst Epic-M owners.

Barco laser projector could speed up RED. Perhaps they share the same technological partner? Barco spoke of january 9th as the laser projector "birthday"

Great times for us users.

Pat
 
fALk Gärtner said:
What about Schneider Patents on Laser Projector Technology? They have failed to bring it to mass market but they had some production models 5 years back. Did RED just buy them out?
The lovely thing about laser projectors -> no need to focus - even sharp on curved walls at every point - beautiful technology - I never understood why Schneider failed with it back then. Was at a screening and it was gorgeous - so I can imagine how great it is with even more rez :)
Click to expand...

5 years ago is a lot of time. Could have been way too expensive to deploy back then. I just bought my wife a pocket video camera that does 1080x60p for a little over 300.00 US. 5 years ago you couldn't get a 1080x60p video camera for less than the cost of a small house. (Not counting Red).
 
Roberto Lequeux said:
Eric, that is the whole point of RedRay. You forgot how ridiculously implausible RedRay's data-rate is.

Thing is, it is so small IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE! ...So it make sense people forget. :)
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Probably wrong, it maybe likely that it might take a magnitude or a magnitude and a half before this happens. For minorilly visually lossy, even more. But we are talking within ten to 50 times, in compression terms that is very close at these compression rates. I personally have been thinking about methords I hope to get upto 1000 to one lossless (hint, noise is not "authentic" part of the image normally, and it is also what you compress). For them to get the last bit is a radical departure in compression tech, if they have already started down the road then achieving that rate at good quality is relatively easier on that technology then conventional technology.
 
Antony M said:
Sony have a built-in projector in one of their latest camcorders....

Maybe the Nov 3 announcement for Scarlet will include a built-in projector too :-)
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As was said before, microvision. Laser projection is one of the display technologies I looked at. Microvision came along with a design similar to something I was considering, one of them. I have ideas for designs far better than ones I know of, but this one is out there now and available, and does not require a PhD to buy it instead of designing it. You can get brighter lasers on it, and there are ways to.eliminate speckle. But word of warning, it is a bad potential for sending kids blind looking into a big screen bright version. I designed these out. See the aperture comes from a very small point, that a kid can stick his eye upto to get a full twelve foot screen dose of laser. I applied several solutions, the most obvious is to apply window barrier sufficiently in front to spread the beams light. So you might have a twenty by ten centimeter+ window barrier. You see that the problems for a bright internal projector in a small camera is much more a problem because of size constraints, though I can get around this too, particularly with the other techniques I came up with. If you want the rest you will have to license.

I did something like 100 projector concept designs, mostly likely new, good practice for 'holographically' seeing outside the box (somebody mentioned recently). I would recommend good practice for students but I would like topatent some if them first. Electronic paper is another potentially good practice area.
 
Scott Brown said:
4K display is the final piece of the jigsaw puzzle...I remember the first time I say RED footage on the Sony 4K projector and it totally blew me away!

To have the ability to screen 4K at an accessible price point would be amazing.

Any word of RED doing 4K LCD displays? These are still selling for $40K+ but if you were to bulk buy from Chi Mei (they produce a 56” 3840x2160 panel) and add your own IO board then costs could be very reasonable and I think you'd sell thousands of them for use in post.

Keep up the great work.

Best wishes

Scott
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Scott, there was a Panasonic shd plasma available at half the price.
 
Toshiba has a QHD display for less than 8000 Euros - thats what I was told at the JVC booth, as they used it to demonstrate their new QHD handycam (which is marvelos small for what it does).

So buying a panel for 40K$ at Chi Mei is - honestly - nonsense.

You can get even cheaper true DCI 4K displays e.g. from Eyevis... Just saw a bunch of them on IBC.

4K is coming the same way HD comes. I remember the days where the first full HD displays had actually a price tag of a mid class car. Now you get 50" screens for less than 1000...

Axel
 
C.H.Haskell said:
Fantastic to hear...the future of digital cinema is looking better and better!
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Sure...but we'll need better stories too. I'm fed up of "popcorn" movies. I want movies I can remember for a lifetime...
 
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