RED PRO Primes vs. LEICA Summilux-C Primes

[Ketch Rossi]

In over twenty years of Photography and Cinematography experiences, I have come across and used just about literally every lens ever Manufactured, or close to it;~). In photography I have come to love Hassy by Zeiss, Leica, Nikon and Canon glass, and in Cinema the Arii/Zeiss Master Primes have taken my heart from their very first appearance, then here come the Red PRO glass, and it was love all over again!!

As I'm awaiting delivery of the Epic-X S35, I find my self looking very careful on my decisions for Glass, as this will not only have to satisfy my Cinema needs but also my Photographic needs for still images. Even so I look so forward to when my Epic 645 will be released, for now I have to make good with the S35 Brain for Photography, especially since I have now officially sold every 35mm and MF Still camera and lenses.

With this comes the decision of the glass, while I was to purchase the new Leica S and their current MF S series Leica glass, I have decided to wait and see if the Epic-X S35 will do for me, RED has already announced a Canon and Nikon mounts for the Epic S35, and we hope to see also a Leica "M" and "R" mount, sorry but Hassy has really lost me when they dropped Zeiss. I dreamed of a Leica S mount on the Epic 645 as soon as I played with the "S" series glass!!

But now down to what this post is about.. RED vs. LEICA in Cine lenses.

I admit that I, like many am a lover of Shallow DOF and super fast lenses, spoiled by the 1.2's of Canon latest line up of "L" glass, so I did wished that the RED PRO PRIME lenses were all T*1.3 or T*1.4, but T*1.8 is not bad at all, however what I have wished even more, since.. well, EVER, is a set of lenses of equal dimension, length, width, and front lens diameter with screw in filter thread, just for when I needed it, and off course to be as light weight as possible, while retaining and incredible image quality.

Well here come the LEICA SUMMILUX-C Primes, which have now answered all my wishes, literally, off course Price was a bit of a surprise but no so much, I did wish for a 10k to 12k per lens top price, but instead we got 20k to 22k per lens ;~(.

If RED was to make all their RED PRO PRIMES in equal qualities of the LEICA's what would their price be? 10k? 12k? 15k? or would they also be in the same price range of 20k to 22k? Well, we just don't know, simply cause they have not announced such a thing or interest in doing so, leaving users to have to make a choice, of either get the RED PRO PRIMES now or wait in line for the LEICA SUMILUX-C Primes and pay FIVE times as much!!

RED PRO PRIMES really do offer the absolute best choice, IMO, at their price point and well above, in all their aspect, Image Quality, Construction, Size and weight, which is not too different from the ARRI/ZEISS MASTER PRIMES, and off course their Good Looks, but I would love to have them the same size, same front element Threaded Diameter and same weight, yet I do understand how much more expensive and complicated it is to make a lens of different Focal, at high speed, of the same compact size, so I take gladly what is offered, which is an "INCREDIBLE DEAL"!!

But I must say that playing with the Leica Summilux-C Primes makes me really want a set of them, just simply put, stunning design, and if current plans continue to go well, I might end up getting a set, really a Fantastic job done by the designers KUDOS!!

The choice to go Leica here, is well beyond what same might call the LEICA Lovers, or the I got Money and want Leica stereotyping, this is simply a choice of having the Absolute Best Designed Cine Lenses to Date, not comparing Image Quality here, but simply their Design!! This goes so far as in to make this the absolute most Practical Lens set to use PERIOD!! I'm sure that all of those that have found them selves carrying different size Threaded Filters, and or Bellow MB adapters and the list goes on, will agree with me on this Indisputable argument.. Just really wish their were Priced more reasonably, not that I don't understand the difference form Volume Manufacturing to Hand Made products, just that with RED's RedVolution, we had hoped other would follow in the great Example that GREAT Glass don't NEED to be so DAM Expensive!! Nevertheless I wish LEICA all the Best, and I know they will do Extremely well, even Better then Arri's and Cooke's line up IMO.

Any way, if RED decides to make a RED PRO PRIME Set of equal specs of the LEICA SUMMILUX-C Primes they will have my money for a couple of sets immediately, if priced in the 10k per lens ;~)


Btw, for now I'll be playing with the M9 and the new Noctilux .95...

KETCH ROSSi | E P I C-M8 D R A G O N (soon)
Founder & CEO @ TOLiCORP PiCTURES™
​

_____________________________________​

Producer | Director | Cinematographer/Director of Photography​

TheREDdress
f. i. t. y.​

 

[MichaelHalsell]

Ketch, those LEICA SUMILUX-C Primes have your name written all it on it. Don't deny yourself. Go ahead an spank' that thang'.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Ketch, those LEICA SUMILUX-C Primes have your name written all it on it. Don't deny yourself. Go ahead an spank' that thang'.

LOL.. Yeah they do Michael, and in all honesty if a current (in Progress) agreement comes to light with Pier59, we shall have them ;~)

 

[Steve Das]

...Any way, if RED decides to make a RED PRO PRIME Set of equal specs of the LEICA SUMMILUX-C Primes they will have my money for a couple of sets immediately, if priced in the 10k per lens ;~)

Ketch you must be psychic..cause whole post reads my mind.

But if we both think this...then for sure others think it..as well as Red..
New smaller cameras...need new smaller/lighter lenses..otherwise
there is no advantage. If it is possible at that price..Red will do it.

 

[Mark Pedersen]

In over twenty years of Photography and Cinematography experiences, I have come across and used just about literally every lens ever Manufactured, or close to it;~). In photography I have come to love Hassy by Zeiss, Leica, Nikon and Canon glass, and in Cinema the Arii/Zeiss Master Primes have taken my heart from their very first appearance, then here come the Red PRO glass, and it was love all over again!!

As I'm awaiting delivery of the Epic-X S35, I find my self looking very careful on my decisions for Glass, as this will not only have to satisfy my Cinema needs but also my Photographic needs for still images. Even so I look so forward to when my Epic 645 will be released, for now I have to make good with the S35 Brain for Photography, especially since I have now officially sold every 35mm and MF Still camera and lenses.

With this comes the decision of the glass, while I was to purchase the new Leica S and their current MF S series Leica glass, I have decided to wait and see if the Epic-X S35 will do for me, RED has already announced a Canon and Nikon mounts for the Epic S35, and we hope to see also a Leica "M" and "R" mount, sorry but Hassy has really lost me when they dropped Zeiss. I dreamed of a Leica S mount on the Epic 645 as soon as I played with the "S" series glass!!

But now down to what this post is about.. RED vs. LEICA in Cine lenses.

I admit that I, like many am a lover of Shallow DOF and super fast lenses, spoiled by the 1.2's of Canon latest line up of "L" glass, so I did wished that the RED PRO PRIME lenses were all T*1.3 or T*1.4, but T*1.8 is not bad at all, however what I have wished even more, since.. well, EVER, is a set of lenses of equal dimension, length, width, and front lens diameter with screw in filter thread, just for when I needed it, and off course to be as light weight as possible, while retaining and incredible image quality.

Well here come the LEICA SUMMILUX-C Primes, which have now answered all my wishes, literally, off course Price was a bit of a surprise but no so much, I did wish for a 10k to 12k per lens top price, but instead we got 20k to 22k per lens ;~(.

If RED was to make all their RED PRO PRIMES in equal qualities of the LEICA's what would their price be? 10k? 12k? 15k? or would they also be in the same price range of 20k to 22k? Well, we just don't know, simply cause they have not announced such a thing or interest in doing so, leaving users to have to make a choice, of either get the RED PRO PRIMES now or wait in line for the LEICA SUMILUX-C Primes and pay FIVE times as much!!

RED PRO PRIMES really do offer the absolute best choice, IMO, at their price point and well above, in all their aspect, Image Quality, Construction, Size and weight, which is not too different from the ARRI/ZEISS MASTER PRIMES, and off course their Good Looks, but I would love to have them the same size, same front element Threaded Diameter and same weight, yet I do understand how much more expensive and complicated it is to make a lens of different Focal, at high speed, of the same compact size, so I take gladly what is offered, which is an "INCREDIBLE DEAL"!!

But I must say that playing with the Leica Summilux-C Primes makes me really want a set of them, just simply put, stunning design, and if current plans continue to go well, I might end up getting a set, really a Fantastic job done by the designers KUDOS!!

The choice to go Leica here, is well beyond what same might call the LEICA Lovers, or the I got Money and want Leica stereotyping, this is simply a choice of having the Absolute Best Designed Cine Lenses to Date, not comparing Image Quality here, but simply their Design!! This goes so far as in to make this the absolute most Practical Lens set to use PERIOD!! I'm sure that all of those that have found them selves carrying different size Threaded Filters, and or Bellow MB adapters and the list goes on, will agree with me on this Indisputable argument.. Just really wish their were Priced more reasonably, not that I don't understand the difference form Volume Manufacturing to Hand Made products, just that with RED's RedVolution, we had hoped other would follow in the great Example that GREAT Glass don't NEED to be so DAM Expensive!! Nevertheless I wish LEICA all the Best, and I know they will do Extremely well, even Better then Arri's and Cooke's line up IMO.

Any way, if RED decides to make a RED PRO PRIME Set of equal specs of the LEICA SUMMILUX-C Primes they will have my money for a couple of sets immediately, if priced in the 10k per lens ;~)

Ketch,

Have you looked at Zeiss Ultra Primes? T 1.9s, more compact and lighter than RPPs or MPs (half the weight), less expensive than Leicas, and from the 16mm up cover 5K.

http://web.me.com/ducloslenses/DataRef/ImgCir.html

Food for thought.

M

 

[Sven Seynaeve]

Ketch, I had already the same question following me for some time now

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I was going to buy a set of Ultra Primes, but after receiving the RPP's I was happy. The only advantage the Ultras have over the RPP's is size and weight. Personally I prefer the look of the RPPs, but that's entirely subjective...

The Leicas look very inviting. I'll buy a set if I win the lottery or if I suddenly find $180K burning a hole in my pocket at the same time I'm looking for new glass. Honestly, I would buy a set if I felt there were enough rental demand here in Denver, but I really don't think there is to justify it. The Leicas are a lot more appealing to me than the Master Primes and yet I bet the rental demand will be lower. I know people in town with Masters and most don't rent because it's not worth their time or they have given up trying to rent because there's not enough of a market and/or the market is too cheap.

I love the RPP's, but there are some compromises made to reach the low price point -- larger size, heavier lenses, fewer marks... RED also depends on volume purchasing to get the cost down. I believe Leica could cut the price in half on the Summilux-C primes and sell 5 times as many sets. But that is not what Leica is about. Orders placed now won't ship for another 8 or 9 months. I'm figuring that they can only deliver so many sets in a year with their current production and quality control and they set prices according to that. They're not in it to mass-produce and ramp up production as RED does. If RED were to release a set of lenses on par with the new Leicas in terms of faster aperture, more compact, etc.. They will definitely be a lot more expensive than the current RPP's. I know RED could do it cheaper than Leica due to the volume production approach. But even that has limits. There comes a certain price point where people will not buy. For example, if the current RPP's were twice the price, they would still be worth every penny because of how they compare to other options on the market. However, at that price point, many owners would probably be forced to rent instead of buy. Or for guys like me who could still buy them, I would be more tempted by the Ultra Primes at that price point... Not because the Ultras are any better, but because I know I can rent them out a lot easier based on name recognition and probably ROI them faster. But with the RPP's at their current price and with their feature set, it's a no-brainer. They're priced low enough where I don't need to bother renting them out. It's cheaper for me to own the RPPs than to rent glass when I need it.

When it comes to the capabilities and the pricing of the RPP's, RED totally nailed it. I can't wait to see what RED does with the FF35 electronic lenses and upcoming medium format options.

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Ketch,

go go go and order set of Leica Summilux-C lenses.

You are now in LA and it makes sense even if rentals like a Otto Nemenz International have 25 sets in order (Otto was one of the investors in LSC set development).

Also like a photographer you know well what perfect glass means for a job.

One more example of Leica still lenses on R1-MX:

Shot on R1-MX with Leica Apo-Summicron-M 75mm f/2.0 ASPH @ f/2.8, ISO 1280, 25 fps, 1/50, AWB,
Light: LED light from a small key-chain pocket lamp, 60 cm distance from Titanium R to the lens.

Shot on R1-MX with Leica Apo-Summicron-M 75mm f/2.0 ASPH @ f/2.8, ISO 1280, 25 fps, 1/50, WB:3200K,
Light: LED light from a small key-chain pocket lamp and neon tube lamp from back, 60 cm distance from Titanium R to the lens.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Glad to have put out something that was already on other Fellow Reduser's mind ;~)

The UP are nice lenses but absolutely not worth the price when compared to the RPP's, not even close to a consideration, however the MP's have always been in my mind do to the Incredible and impressive IQ thru out the entire set, and Design, as well as off course the very important Speed of T*1.3.

Again, serious considerations are going in on placing an order for the set, will see how things move along..

 

[MichaelHalsell]

Ketch, seriously, stop thinking about it. Go to your freezer and take out that crisp stack of $100 bills and place that deposit. When the lens arrive, invite over (say 1,000 people ie Redusers) to your crib to check them out. Oh yea, don't forget to make the lasagna.

You do the above, you will no trouble making new friends. You'll be on everybody's Facebook page. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Ketch, seriously, stop thinking about it. Go to your freezer and take out that crisp stack of $100 bills and place that deposit. When the lens arrive, invite over (say 1,000 people ie Redusers) to your crib to check them out. Oh yea, don't forget to make the lasagna.

You do the above, you will no trouble making new friends. You'll be on everybody's Facebook page. :smilewinkgrin:

LOL!! :iagree:

 

[Steve Das]

...When it comes to the capabilities and the pricing of the RPP's, RED totally nailed it. I can't wait to see what RED does with the FF35 electronic lenses and upcoming medium format options.

Yes..am as excited for the FF35 electronic zooms as the camera itself.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Yes..am as excited for the FF35 electronic zooms as the camera itself.

I will by pass the FF35 entirely and wait to move to the Epic 645 from my Epic-X S35, so I have to say that while I'm not exited for the FF system, I'm however extremely exited to see what RED pulls out as far as the MF glass, if not I will go with the new Leica "S" glass, if its supported.

 

[Mark Pedersen]

Glad to have put out something that was already on other Fellow Reduser's mind ;~)

The UP are nice lenses but absolutely not worth the price when compared to the RPP's, not even close to a consideration, however the MP's have always been in my mind do to the Incredible and impressive IQ thru out the entire set, and Design, as well as off course the very important Speed of T*1.3.

Again, serious considerations are going in on placing an order for the set, will see how things move along..

Maybe, but have you picked up a 25mm RPP and an UP and felt the diff in weight? Which would be more balanced on an Epic? Which would you rather hand hold? What about durability, consistent position of gears, how accurately and consistently they hit their focus relative to the scales?

A lot goes into the consideration in the long haul.

Granted, the Leicas are gorgeous. And faster. If you can afford them, do it

M

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Maybe, but have you picked up a 25mm RPP and an UP and felt the diff in weight? Which would be more balanced on an Epic? Which would you rather hand hold? What about durability, consistent position of gears, how accurately and consistently they hit their focus relative to the scales?

A lot goes into the consideration in the long haul.

Granted, the Leicas are gorgeous. And faster. If you can afford them, do it

M

Again Mark, there is sure differences but for the price difference and what you get I would still get the RPP any day, and would only consider the MP, but not the UP.

Build on the RPP is great, and the markings can be re-done to match precisely either standard cine lenses such as the UP and or MP or for S3D work at a low cost, which will still put them miles away form the forbidden cost (to most) of the UP and MP.

The Leica Cine Primes bring a completely new set of additional attractive plusses to the market and to the Professional users in both field of cine and Stil work, and will make incredible partners with the Red Epic and Red Scarlet, no question, I'm seriously considering..

 

[roryhinds]

Why not start a list of people who would purchase the Leica's at a more reasonable price and make contact with there sales department or management.

Then they can see that if they lowered their price more artists could use their tools.
A blog or something online that gets the attention of the press would be great for this.

Lenses simply shouldn't cost the same amount as a house

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

Lenses simply shouldn't cost the same amount as a house

as long as there are people that pay more than for a house they will....:coolgleamA:

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Why not start a list of people who would purchase the Leica's at a more reasonable price and make contact with there sales department or management.

Then they can see that if they lowered their price more artists could use their tools.
A blog or something online that gets the attention of the press would be great for this.

Lenses simply shouldn't cost the same amount as a house

He he, I'm so with you on this Rory.. so with you.

 

[Mitch Gross]

Why not start a list of people who would purchase the Leica's at a more reasonable price and make contact with there sales department or management.

Then they can see that if they lowered their price more artists could use their tools.
A blog or something online that gets the attention of the press would be great for this.

Lenses simply shouldn't cost the same amount as a house

Can we do this with Ferarris? Maybe space shuttles while we're at it.

I think you have unrealistic expectations.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Can we do this with Ferarris? Maybe space shuttles while we're at it.

I think you have unrealistic expectations.

Mitch, even so I have to say that you are right, there is always the possibility for a deal when a group buy is offered, in this case off course I don't think it would work, as we would need many sets, but I can guarantee you that Otto did not pay full price for the 25 sets, and neither would we if we could put together an order of several sets, this I already know.

Btw, not Space Shuttles, a bit too far out of a comparisons here, sorry ;~), but Ferrari did and continues to do Group discounts were you can be a guess at Maranello, Italy and have your vehicles personalized.