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Red Pro Matte Box vs Oconnor O-Box

Nils J. Nesse

Nils J. Nesse

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Both of these seem like an excellent choice, and the price is about identical ($1200 base config) , so I'm trying to figure out which one I want. I haven't seen either IRL, so I'm basing this on spec sheets and jpegs. Would love to hear feedback from people who have actually touched them.

I like either: A simple clipon mattebox, or: a solid 19mm swingaway mattebox. For now a clipon is what I need, but the modular Red seems like it could be both (sometime in the future)


RED Pros:
Aesthetics (Badassness)
Comes with the clip-on rings I happen to need (110mm)
Modular (19mm swingaway module will be available?)

RED Cons:
Rotating trays not yet available
"Standard" clip-on ring sizes not yet available. (80mm, 95mm)
Side flags not yet available

==

Oconnor Pros:
I like the O-Grip mounts, and mounting points all over, smart!
Rotating tray (1)
138mm bellows and reduction rings are available (but not included in the price)

OConnor Cons:
15mm LW is not what I want. (No 19mm swingaway upgrade path)
Not as cool. Not as modular.


Which one do you prefer? Which one will last 20 years?
 
I haven't seen the Red matte box but I have the O-Box and can say some things about it:

- Sturdy build, especially the hood.

- The attachments for the O-Grips are nice and so are the mounting points at the top. I wouldn't want to hold my rig at the matte box though unless it is a very light set-up (definitely not a Red One). The matte box is strong enough but the mounting point to the rods is not and is going to flex a lot.

- The lock screw for the first tray is very very very hard to get to unless you have very very very small fingers. And without locking it the tray will fall through. This is in my opinion the biggest shortcoming of the O-Box. A small thing but very annoying! A bigger screw won't fit because you can't rotate the tray anymore.

- The rubber bellows is a bit flimsy and the rubber tends to detach from the ring.

- Side flags work well, stay in place and can be locked down to withstand a proper storm. There is a big gap though between the side flags and the top flag, not sure why they did that.

All in all a nice small matte box with some little problems.
 
Thanks Sander, just the kind of feedback I was looking for. I have quite small fingers, but I'm not sure if they're small enough... :)
 
O-Box is a bit heavier, some of the attachment points are a nice touch. In terms of versatility, the O-Box has a lot more options at the moment. RED's mattebox is nice for a clip-on, but I would prefer an LMB-5 if I were only going to be using it as a clip-on. RED's is built more modular and will have a lot more accessories or components in the future. Right now, we could still use some additional clamping ring sizes like 95mm and 80mm. Side flags have not appeared in the store yet, nor have the bits to attach a bottom flag.

The only real down-side to the O-Box I've found is that if you attach handles to it (the O-Grips are awesome, BTW), it's possible to put too much torque on the mattebox. They claim it's solid, but in my experience it's just not quite there. Would be very easy to grab the mattebox by an attached grip and flex it enough to push a filter into the front of a lens, damaging the filter or possibly even the lens.

The RED MB shows a lot of promise. The O-Box is a great lightweight MB if you need more options than a compact clip-on like the LMB-5 and don't want to go all out on an MB-20 or similar. I much prefer the RED MB and the O-BOX over the ARRI MMB-1, which is another good option, I just don't like it as well.
 
Thanks Jeff. ACs around here really like the LMB-5. Maybe I should just get that. But it looks so 80's, compared to the modern Red and Oconnor boxes.
 
I have the O-Box and have been debating whether to return it. Unfortunately, it's now a 15% restocking fee because I wasn't able to test it until the backordered Epic rail components arrived.

The flex issue is really and is a serious design flaw IMHO. Perhaps it's not an issue if you have it clamped onto the lens as well as the rods? I only have the Red 17-50 on hand at the moment and O'connor doesn't have an adapter ring for it, so I can't test that. However, if O'connor had the rail clamps coming from the composite shade structure, it's possible that the whole thing could be rigid enough. If I keep the mattebox, I may have my machinist fabricate something like that for me.
 
Aw man, why do you guys always gotta start with this stuff when there are girls around?

First of all, to disabuse anyone of the notion that we build our matteboxes out of overcooked spaghetti -- the O-Box really does have a high degree of structural integrity. Here's our "Spanish Inquisition" test rig...

247653_2068732924727_1436960527_32376536_6900602_n.jpg



The O-Grip ball clamps will actually give way before the O-Box structure shows any signs of being affected. If you're familiar with the strength of the O-Grips, you'll understand how much muscle that actually represents in such a setup.

But regarding the general issue of flex down to the rods, much of this depends on how everything is set up and how force is being applied. We did a lot of research when designing the O-Box to find the optimal balance between strength, weight and features, but every so often, there's the application that needs a little something else. Any chance I can get a couple of snapshots of your builds?
 
Hey Jim, no argument on the strength of the components you show. They're built like a tank. The problem is in how the whole assembly attaches to the rods. Because the filter tray assembly comes between the cage and the rod clamp, it allows the whole thing to flex when torque is applied - even a modest amount. My feeling is that the rod clamp should be integral to the cage. The filter tray assembly is very well made, but there's a certain amount of flex inherent to it. It would probably have to be WAY overbuilt to eliminate the flex, which is why I think the rod clamp should be attached to or integral to the cage.

I can email you a brief video showing my setup and the flex.
 
@Adam C Lubkin:Could you post such a video anywhere public? I am interested in the O-Box but have no chance to test it here. So this video could be really helpful!
 
It is not the O-Box that is flexing, it is the baseplate and rods system that they are riding on. There are alot of people using wrong or universal baseplates with their cameras and are not getting proper tightness and that carries through to the matte-box. There is alot of leverage at the end of the rods and that is where the matte-box lies. I love the O-Box but don't like the bellows. Does come apart easy.
 
The flex I'm experiencing is not in the baseplate.

To be clear, much (but not all) of the flex that I'm referring to may be eliminated by clamping the mattebox to both lens AND rods. But the O-Box is being promoted as a mattebox that can be either clamp-on or rod-mounted, plus you can handle it by the cage, plus you can screw O-Grips into the cage and handle it that way. Well, if it's just rod-mounted then there IS too much flex to be handling it that way, even though the cage and O-Grips are well up the task.

There is an easy fix - keep the rod mount where it is and add a second one on the cage. This would create a triangulation of sorts and minimize the flex. For even more security you could then clamp it to the lens as well.

I think it's a brilliant design in some ways and I love what O'Connor is doing. It just needs a little tweaking to live up to its billing.
 
Have to second that Adam and Steve are correct that it's not the O-Box itself that flexes. It's mounting bracket and supporting hardware. Improper baseplates and/or long rods can also contribute to this. I agree with Adam that the rod clamp should be integral to the cage or frame section.

O-Box is a nice mattebox, I really like it. And this flex issue really is only an issue when someone connects handles and tries to drag the camera around by its nose, in a manner of speaking.
 
ADAM this was extremely helpful.
Thank you.
 
Sounds like the flexing is not an issue when you use it as a clip-on?
 
Clamping the mattebox to the lens as well as to the rods should firm it up. I have not tried that. I don't own the O-Box, but have used one on two separate jobs, about 9 days total. I do like the O-Box, but have yet to see it in a configuration that is solid enough to live up to the hype of being able to put those grips on the box itself and pull a heavy camera around. And I don't hold that against the O-Box really. I wouldn't be trying to mount handles onto an MB-20, Chrosziel or RED mattebox either. The O-Box is still one of the more rugged mattebox systems out there right now.
 
I don't have red mattebox, but just got o-box, and can't say I'm very happy with it. To tell the truth I expected something better from O'Connor. Once again I'm proven that Arri costs what it costs for a reason ( I also got MB20). For one the o-box is heavy - no way it's usable as a clamp-on in my book. Second - filter trays hold filters just barely! It's an accident waiting to happen. And why make the filter tray holding screws so hard to access? When you look at Arri mattebox you come to think: damn, it's such a simple construction, why is it so expensive? And yet, no other manufacturer seems to be able to produce anything close to the quality of arri accessories.. Your mileage may vary, of course..
 
Hi Gediminas,

 Of course we’re unhappy when you’re unhappy, but let’s look at this objectively. I think you ordered your O-Box with side flag and bottom flag brackets, am I right? If so, we do offer the options because we don’t want to limit anyone, but when you add hardware, you add weight. So, which four-flag-holder matte box with a rotating stage, that you can clamp on, are you comparing it to? I think that if you put together a list, even if you would find something lighter, you’d quite possibly not like it better. “Quality” is often subjective, depending on what you most value. There are components on the O-Box (such as the sunshade) that are far more capable of taking punishment than the comparable components on a matte box from any other manufacturer.

 I don’t quite understand what you’re finding wrong with the filter trays, but if you could send me a picture, I’ll try and assist you in finding the problem.

 To all:

 Eric and I are here in order to answer questions about our gear, and we’re more than happy to answer questions such as “what does it weigh in configuration XYZ?” We won’t lie to you, and if you find something else that better serves your needs, by all means, go for it. The O-Box is made to do and offer what the O-Box does and offers. It isn’t a multi-filter swingaway mattebox and it isn’t the lightest-weight bare-bones clip-on. Those matteboxes already exist from other folks, we don’t need to throw another into the mix. Basically, there are more than enough folks who want what the O-Box offers and thus there’s no need for us to try and hype it to people who need something more complex, only need something simpler, or really want something different. Just ask us and we’ll tell you true, insofar as we have the information. And if you want data about products from others, you should definitely ask them. In general, I’ve noticed an alarming tendency these days not to ask, not to find out, not to compare. We encourage you to compare. If we all built the same thing and never wanted to try anything new, life would get pretty boring.

 It’s been said by many different old hands in many different situations, “you can’t build the perfect matte box.” And it’s true. Only you can specify the piece of gear you need and determine what compromises you are willing to make given the available choices.
 
Good post Jim! I tried to order an OBox last week but Abelcine was out. After the new 138mm bellows ring ships (the one with your updated metal-on-metal design) then I'll be getting my order in pronto.
 
Hi Jim,

Yes, I ordered it with all available accessories. Yes, it's quite possibly the sturdiest mattebox, no question about that. But filter trays have to be accessible, and hold the filter well, and be held in the mattebox, Jim... And I as well as my fellow camera assistants see problems with the mattebox in this regard.. Perhaps I can even adjust the filter tray so that the filter is pressed more in it, but when the tray is difficult to keep from falling out.. I don't know. As well as I don't know if I should ask a reputable manufacturer a question like "are your filter trays held in place well enough" before purchasing a mattebox... I thought that would come as a given from the company as reliable as O'Connor is with it's camera support equipment. I've nothing to say but praise my 2575...
 
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