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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red Primes, How are they coming?

I thought Heard someone on here say you can order them already.
I cant find the post.
But I know if the "RED" ones are not out you can go with the Cooke S4 cuz thats what they are.
As far as i understand.
 
Michael Lindsay said:
I always imagine that built for digital means that they are more telicentric (and perhaps with a slightly larger imaging circle).

Of course I suspect for the most part it means nothing coherent at all.

regards

Michael
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I guess you are referring to exit pupil position in the lens. A closer position of exit pupil could, in theory, cause pixel vignetting that is caused by angle-dependence of the digital sensors.

Has anyone observed pixel vignetting using S4 or other "non-digital" lenses? I haven't seen it.
 
Pawel Achtel said:
I guess you are referring to exit pupil position in the lens. A closer position of exit pupil could, in theory, cause pixel vignetting that is caused by angle-dependence of the digital sensors.

Has anyone observed pixel vignetting using S4 or other "non-digital" lenses? I haven't seen it.
Click to expand...

Standard speeds supposedly exhibit this with their less retrofocal wide angle lenses. I haven't checked it myself.

Michael Bravin has a bit to say about the need for digital lenses with 35mm sensors. Maybe he could chime in?

I do know from testing that MP exhibit spectacular edge to edge sharpness/contrast/brightness and they seem to have larger imaging circles (and are supposedly on average more telicentric)

We do need somebody (digital lens evangelists) to come in cause I only really know what I see (I come from a non-standard epistemological starting place).

sorry I'm not more helpfull

Michael (actually doesn't need/want perfect lenses) Lindsay
 
I'm by no means an expert, but here's a few things that I've picked up along the way.

Digital, at least as far as lenses goes is mostly a marketing term, there is no absolute set of criteria that make a lens digital or not.

However there are characteristics that make a lens that's acceptable on a film camera, less desirable with a digital system.

Telecentric rear exit pupil - Film is better able to accept light at a steeper angle than a digital sensor, some lenses designed for film may tend to vignette at the edges. You'll probably see this the most on older designed wide angles, and lenses made for 35mm rangefinders.

Chromatic Aberration- Sometimes called color fringing can become exaggerated in a digital system ( as compared to film ) due to debayering, digitals' high resolution and limited contrast reproduction.

Contrast based imaging vs Resolution based imaging- Since Digital uses fixed photo-sites ( pixels ) and film uses constantly randomly updating photo-sites ( silver halides ) digital is limited in resolution by the size and spacing of the pixels. Motion picture film, at least in the case of a static image, is limited in acuity by the noise ( grain ) of the system. In digital lens design a manufacturer may decide to go for excellent micro-contrast at a given maximum resolution versus maximum resolution at lesser micro-contrast. In a perfect world you want both, but optics is a far from perfect art !

This is all pretty geeky, and probably won't do much to make your films better, probably the best thing it to try some different lenses and see what you like ?

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com
 
So back to the genesis of this thread - anyone out there have a clue as to when the Red primes will come out?
 
Matt Uhry said:
I'm by no means an expert, but here's a few things that I've picked up along the way.

Digital, at least as far as lenses goes is mostly a marketing term, there is no absolute set of criteria that make a lens digital or not.

However there are characteristics that make a lens that's acceptable on a film camera, less desirable with a digital system.

Telecentric rear exit pupil - Film is better able to accept light at a steeper angle than a digital sensor, some lenses designed for film may tend to vignette at the edges. You'll probably see this the most on older designed wide angles, and lenses made for 35mm rangefinders.

Chromatic Aberration- Sometimes called color fringing can become exaggerated in a digital system ( as compared to film ) due to debayering, digitals' high resolution and limited contrast reproduction.

Contrast based imaging vs Resolution based imaging- Since Digital uses fixed photo-sites ( pixels ) and film uses constantly randomly updating photo-sites ( silver halides ) digital is limited in resolution by the size and spacing of the pixels. Motion picture film, at least in the case of a static image, is limited in acuity by the noise ( grain ) of the system. In digital lens design a manufacturer may decide to go for excellent micro-contrast at a given maximum resolution versus maximum resolution at lesser micro-contrast. In a perfect world you want both, but optics is a far from perfect art !

This is all pretty geeky, and probably won't do much to make your films better, probably the best thing it to try some different lenses and see what you like ?

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com
Click to expand...
Great post Matt. My Congrats! Including sincere humbleness. It should be sticked!

My respect,
Emanuel :-)
 
Matthew Duclos said:
Oh look... a kitty.
Click to expand...

What are you playing at Matt?!!!!


One more "Digital" feature of some lenses is the lack of flat optical elements, this helps cut down reflections from the OLPF/Sensor that is much more reflective than a piece of film.
 
Remember, "digital" is not homogenous. Some sensors accept wider angles of incidence than others, particularly due to varying microlens design.
 
When the prime lenses will arrive? - who knows besides a few at Red. I'll guess there will be a trickle in the next 4 months then decent quantities by summer. It's only a guess and historically I've never guessed too early.

Yesterday would not be soon enough as far as I'm concerned.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry
 
Emanuel said:
Great post Matt. My Congrats! Including sincere humbleness. It should be sticked!

My respect,
Emanuel :-)
Click to expand...
are you speaking seriously?.. perhaps you want to stick that geeky part.. :nuke:
 
A plan:

Someone on this forum should become friends with Matthew Duclos, bring booze over to his house, and get him drunk enough to talk.
 
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