RED or Film School?

[Christian Edwards]

Guys,

It's a pleasure to be a member of this community and a potential RED ONE owner. I've been readings tons of posts over the past few months and the red is without a doubt a revolutionary piece of equipment. I have a question that i'd like your input on:

Assuming your ultimate ambition is to make a living making movies (which probably applies to most of you), would you go with Film School, the Red One, or both?

I feel that the skills that you learn in film school and the intense learning environment along with the connections you make are invaluable. Filmmaking is a craft and perfecting it in a safe and intense environment is important. But then again, film school is crazy expensive and puts you out of the workforce for 2-3 years.

The Red I feel teaches you and gives you the opportunity to simply shoot your own films and refine your skill on your own. Learn by doing sort of thing. You can also start a business out of it and earn a living out of it through freelance work or setting up a small production company as you pursue making your own films. It's also relatively affordable.

So if you guys had the choice, which would you go with? A couple of years of intense learning and connections, or a piece of cutting edge equipment that you can use both to learn and create? Or both?! Is this the sort of camera that is feasible for an independent filmmaker rather than a production studio? All inputs are welcome!

It's great to be a part of this community!

Study man Fucking study HARD! , The key to unlocking REDs true potential is through knowledge! let me put it this way ....its like buy a car without a license! although having said that... it would be good to have your own to practice in.Remember red is only half the picture (no pun intended)

 

[Christian Edwards]

Hmm for VFX training, I'd strongly consider fxphd.com

It's first-class stuff... the content is very good and they give you material you can use on your demo reel. (I'd be surprised if any school did both for you.) And on top of that, the price is much better than film school.

i was thinking of attending a few courses in Sydney esp fusion

 

[Mark B.]

Go to school to get a degree in something unrelated to film, something that will earn some money to put into your movies and act as a fall-back career in case you ever leave the movie industry. Probably the most useful movie-related degree would be a business degree, with a focus on marketing.

 

[Joel Kaye]

Probably the most useful movie-related degree would be a business degree, with a focus on marketing.

I was basically thinking that a degree in something other than filmmaking makes more sense too.

I was kinda thinking engineering or biogenetics... or anything that actually requires a degree to work in the field. My degree was in marketing. Not bad, but you can go down to Borders and buy $500 of books and learn more practical marketing techniques than I learned in school. Glad I have a degree and the experience of getting a business degree does help. When I went back to take film classes it really hit me that almost none of the artistic people I bumped into had the first clue about business realities. They all just want money to make their movie. End of story.

I'm not a giant fan of school for the learning. It's ALL about the networking. I was too dumb to realize that when I was in school.

So if you're in school now - MAKE FRIENDS. (notice I didn't say make "contacts". Provided you have the skills to do the job, people will hire you because you're hardworking, reliable and very easy to get along with.

 

[Jamey]

Interesting thread.
I am a professor at a small liberal arts college where we offer a degree in Cinema. A problem I see with education is that most Westerners mistakenly think by reading a book you understand a subject. To really understand, that knowledge has to be coupled with experience.
Film school is simply a starting place for filmmakers, it is not the finish line. I tell my students once they graduate that they will learn more on the job than they ever did here. Is that a knock on our program? No. It's just a fact.
Film school is great to help hold you accountable, to actually make you learn about film, to provide you with equipment, to guide you in learning and
for teaching you to continue to learn, which you have to do if you want to survive in this industry. It also gives you a network of like minded friends.
To me the bottom line is no matter what you do, you have to take ownership of your career. Film school does not give you a career nor does owning a great camera give you a career. You have to have knowledge coupled with hardwork and where you get that knowledge is up to you.

 

[Ed Watkins]

Do what I did.. get three degrees, buy a RED, then spend the rest of your life in happy poverty.

Not sure what my BA and MA in Natural Sciences & Biological Anthropology are good for, but I'm guessing the MFA in Science & Natural History Filmmaking might come in useful. :whistling:

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Except for calculus and sculpting I could have learned everything I learned in college in about one intensive month.

BUT

It gave me 2.5 years (I was impatient to graduate) where I didn't have to have a job. I could live off of extremely low interest loans that didn't begin acrueing until 6 months after I graduated and I had access to a large room full of $100k worth of gear. My teachers were very flexible and I was given freeform in all of my film and 3D classes to pursue what interested me. So really it was just 2.5 years of freedom to experiment and make movies whenever I wanted without having to go to work. That was invaluable.

But what I also found extremely valuable from college were the classes that I took outside of film. The technicals of film making are pretty basic. What it comes down to is story. Creativity. Vision and cooperation. College will give you the opportunity to take ancient mythology courses. College will give you the chance to learn a foreign language, mathematics, literature... all of the things which you can bring to your job and make you more than a guy who's really good at turning a nob.

The world is full of button pushers. If you get creative with your education it can certainly give you a better grasp of art.

Learn to draw. Learn to Paint. Learn to Sculpt. Learn Poetry. Learn Mathematics. Learn the fundamentals of Business.

Also consider whether or not Film is the best path to what you want to do. If you want to make movies it might be best to get a peripheral job that gives you the free time after you graduate to fund your dream.

 

[Andrew Benz]

Great post Gavin.

 

[mezmo]

Hi Iseras,
A good film school will teach you how to communicate on all
levels. Sorta important if you plan on directing.
Practical experience is the best way to perfect learned skills.
So you need both. No question about it.
But you know this.
Good Luck.....Mezmo

 

[Russ McDonald]

Great post Gavin.

I agree with that, making your mistakes in school is better than making it on my set were it costs me money.

 

[J.D. Frey]

don't go to school-learning is free. Just read all you can. That will help minimize mistakes- they are going to happen anyway, but if you have insurance that will limit the expense. nothing can stop you from taking a car on the road at 16- it's the american way.

 

[Mathew Mackereth]

vfx

vfx

Hmm for VFX training, I'd strongly consider fxphd.com

It's first-class stuff... the content is very good and they give you material you can use on your demo reel. (I'd be surprised if any school did both for you.) And on top of that, the price is much better than film school.

true - the FXPHD stuff looks great and is really affordable, and i'm certain I'll continue to use it as a resource to learn new software and techniques in the future - i must say though, that film school is also about the teamwork of seeing a few whole films through to completion and learning how to integrate as part of a team. AFTRS is probably little different to a lot of film schools in that it is post grad, and that we start specialised and work, more or less as a production team. (I'll post some links to my AFTRS work once i finish the short i'm working on - VFX plates were shot on RED of course!)

again i think it is just one of many pathways - and every school, course, book or job will offer you something different.

In an industry of rapid innovation and change, we'll all continue to be learning until they put us in the ground right?

 

[J.D. Frey]

In an industry of rapid innovation and change, we'll all continue to be learning until they put us in the ground right?

absolutely- last i heard there are 4000 red reservations out there- one day those 4000 cameras will be OLD, and it will be time to upgrade to a RED Two or another camera completely. Who knows?

J.D.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

If you want to learn good lighting and shooting:

Buy an $800 digital DSLR. A good 10+:1 zoom. $1,000 in lights and start shooting.

No need to go through all through hastle and expense of a RED camera.

 

[Justin Riley]

Not going to a film school is like giving somebody a gun without telling him about its effects. Filmmaking is about communication, moving masses, transmitting emotions and a film camera might be a much more powerful tool than a gun. Education, knowledge and the history of film is a must, it should be mandatorry to buy a RED (just a joke), as long as you don't have the opportunity to work as assistant for Kitano, Scorsese, Spielberg, Besson, Bertolucci or others. Not everybody has the possibility to do so, it requires time and money, but at least you should get some good literature and study by yourself. The RED community may change the future "of film" enabling everybody to access people's livingrooms. I believe you should consider to get the best school you can and prepare to deal with the "power" you might have one day.

 

[Gareth Gerrard]

I would buy the camera... if you have a brain, time and talent your pretty much sorted. Also I think if you can afford to go to film school you probably can afford to get a camera after anyway. Ideally to do both would be sweet though!!!

 

[Andrew Hewlett]

Buy the camera, network and get on sets to work as ANYTHING. Learn by doing.

 

[seankirk]

Tools are only as good as the person using them. Owning a RED One will not make you a good DP, learn the craft first my friend, then release your skills into the world. Once you learn the craft and find yourself, if doesn't matter if you're shooting DV or Imax you will find yourself within the art. Filmmaking just happens to be a very technical art, and there certain things you need to know. Also, you're first few shoots will most likely turn out badly, why not waste your bad work in school. Its a word of mouth business, and if you do shoddy work professionally, people will find out about it.

 

[Zack Birlew]

I'm a case of this. I decided to go to film school and gave up my reservation. Sad but true.

I'm going to Chapman University in Orange County. I'm still getting used to the area, my goodness there's malls everywhere here! Of course, I'm situated about a good 15-20 minutes away from RED HQ, always there to remind me. So far I've just been getting used to going back to school, which is the hardest part of it. I got my college degree in film so I'm way ahead of a lot of people who are just starting out fresh and it is really making this first semester drag because I know 90% of what they're teaching here. Thankfully, Chapman offers a bunch of opportunities to allow the film students to meet each other, which my undergrad (UNLV) didn't. I've already met a few good people that I may be filming with this weekend. Right now I'm working on a second year project but I'm not in any of the major positions, I got saddled with being one of the art department crew. Not remotely related to anything I want to do (ie. direct, write, and produce), but I'm trying to do my best with it to make a good first impression. I'm still busy meeting people so the bad part is that I don't have anybody to help me on my own projects if I want to do anything one weekend or something. Also, the economy falling out from under me has caused me to be in an extended stay hotel for the past two months waiting for paperwork to go through and get processed for a loan to get a place near campus. This all has also really knocked me down emotionally and, combined with repetitive homework I didn't expect, I haven't been able to get comfortable enough to write.

So, after all of this, do I wish I had just bought a RED and started out on my own? No, not at all. I may not like the school right now but I'm going through introductory classes just like everybody else. By next semester, I should be freed up to take some of the more interesting classes available for my ideal emphasis. Also, from what I hear, there's going to be a lot of opportunities for independent study, so I can make a film with all the resources available to me there. Granted, I don't think there's anyone there that knows exactly how to use the advanced softwares like Scratch that are installed on nearly every computer there, but I've got time to learn. Also, I'm not sure I want to make live action movies right off the bat, I'm thinking about getting into 3D animation with my brother. That's a whole different ballgame there. Imagine if I had decided that after buying a RED and all the other stuff I would have needed for it! Have I given up on live action? No, not at all. Just not right now. Plus, I hate to say it, I could always rent a RED because there's a rental shop a few minutes away from Chapman called Gear Monkey and they have a RED package I could get. Granted, it's $1,000 a day but at least it's there if I need it and I can always piece together other stuff like a microphone, lights, tripod, Nikon lenses, etc. and use those on it and keep them for future cameras (ie. Epic [unless they go full IMAX or something now]). I know I'm going to meet new people who will help me along the way and I will get my place soon and be comfortable enough to write again once I get back into my groove. I also know that I will be freed up more and more as time goes on. So, I'm going to have options. I may have to put up with some stuff right off the bat but it'll get better in the long run.