Red one should be honored with Monstro

[Miltos Pilalitos]

I liked almost everything announced by RED today but the upgrade plan for RED one was a HUGE disappointment. Mysterium X sounds like a fantastic proposition for new buyers but what does it do for RED1 owners like me? +1 stop of dynamic range??

My belief in the obsolete obsolescence moto made me invest more than $40K to Jim's products and although i love my gear and my two RED zooms i feel that the promise was not kept.

I hope that a more radical RED1 upgrade program will be announced before Spring for all those early adopters who beta tested the camera and the whole RED paradigm until now. It looks as if the only *real* update is exchanging R1 for an EPIC S35 since it's the only EPIC with a PL mount. Somehow, it doesn't feel right.

Please, upgrade the upgrade program...

 

[MiguelOrtega]

i agree ,, or at least the update price should be minimal.

 

[Jason Ing]

Just posted something similar. Scarlet S35 and Epic S35. I can't see paying 10.5k more. And there's something that's bothersome to think someone is paying substantially less money for something better or almost equivalent (after a sensor upgrade) of the Red One.

Upgrading to monstro level is the cost of getting a second Red One.

I hate saying all this because I sound like an ingrate.

 

[Jason Ing]

If the great, new modular system that Red One inspired allows for upgrading to any brain, Red One should somehow be a part of it as much as possible. Is monstro able to be put in a Red One?

 

[HD Bubaloo]

Keep your PL lenses and upgrade to the S35 Epic. No one was complaining when Epic was a 5K camera months ago before changes were announced. Just close your eyes and pretend its September again. Then ask if you were going to upgrade to Epic 5k at $28k more or if you were happy with what you had. If you were happy, still smile, if you were going to upgrade to the 5k Epic. Well you can and for only $11k more (S35) and still keep your lenses. If you are still unhappy, sell your RED One use that money to buy the S35 Scarlet 5k for $7k and use the left over cash for the rest of the cameras parts. You would still be ahead of the RED One, and it would be completely outfited.

Last option sensor upgrade for your RED One. Problem solved. You have several options here.

 

[Jason Ing]

Yeah... that thought occurred to me... my serial number might just still be a commodity.... is 1500's still good?

Oh... it's transferrable to the new owner, right? the upgrade goes with the camera?

 

[Jay A. Kelley]

You guys are killing me.

Please remember that these new cameras are not out yet.. And I'll betcha a fair dollar they are a year away (Or close to it). So by the time you will upgrade, you will have used your RED One for 2 years. There are a fair amount of camera companies that come out with WHOLE new cameras every two years.

Now about "never having to buy a new camera". I understand your point, but the truth is that RED had a learning curve. In a perfect world they would have come out with the Epic/Scarlet program FIRST, but people have to learn. So he's giving a 100% RETAIL VALUE trade in on your RED One (A two year old system I might add).

For the later people, I dunno how this will all shake out, but for us who jumped in early, I think we're doing pretty good. And by the way, people need to remember these prices are for BRAINS only.. I would expect AT LEAST $10 - $20 additional to finish the camer out.

Jay

 

[Andrae Palmer]

Generally people that are not concerned have the funds to upgrade to an Epic and are excited. At this point its a money game... RED socialism just got killed last night. The options are to sell your RED One or muster up 20k or way more for an Epic.

 

[Brandon Fraley]

Agreed. If you're a RED ONE owner wealthy enough to afford an Epic, you're not out any money. Otherwise, I have to pay MORE to upgrade my $17,500 RED ONE to become not as good as the $12,000 Scarlet.

RED, I have your back and I'm sure in the end everyone will be happy, but the program's not making a lot of sense right now.

 

[Jeremy Newmark]

I'm sorry but I just have a real hard time with these statements. I think we need to look at it with a little perspective. Jim always said that the Red One would be upgradeable, and it is. If you think that Epic is the answer, then you simply trade in your Red One (which you've been able to use and make money off of) for a full credit towards an epic. That alone is unheard of. But on top of that, the Red One already delivers way more then was ever promised. Even if it didn't receive an upgrade for another year, this camera simply produces incredible images as it stands now. We replaced a Sony F900 that we had for 3 years with our Red One, and just from a price point, it was incredible that we could do that, not to mention the drastic improvement that we got from the quality of the images. Even if the camera didn't change for the next two years, I could shoot with it and not have any room to complain about the quality of the images it produces. Can it get better? Of course, technology changes and always gets better, but the promise made was that it would always be upgradeable (and not for free). The camera gets better with every build, which is free, and will get better with every sensor upgrade, which you have to expect to pay for. I'm not trying to kiss Red's ass here, I'm just trying to be realistic. They are offering us more than reasonable choices. Just my 1/2 cent.

 

[Jason Ing]

I'm sorry but I just have a real hard time with these statements. I think we need to look at it with a little perspective. Jim always said that the Red One would be upgradeable, and it is. If you think that Epic is the answer, then you simply trade in your Red One (which you've been able to use and make money off of) for a full credit towards an epic. That alone is unheard of. But on top of that, the Red One already delivers way more then was ever promised. Even if it didn't receive an upgrade for another year, this camera simply produces incredible images as it stands now. We replaced a Sony F900 that we had for 3 years with our Red One, and just from a price point, it was incredible that we could do that, not to mention the drastic improvement that we got from the quality of the images. Even if the camera didn't change for the next two years, I could shoot with it and not have any room to complain about the quality of the images it produces. Can it get better? Of course, technology changes and always gets better, but the promise made was that it would always be upgradeable (and not for free). The camera gets better with every build, which is free, and will get better with every sensor upgrade, which you have to expect to pay for. I'm not trying to kiss Red's ass here, I'm just trying to be realistic. They are offering us more than reasonable choices. Just my 1/2 cent.

"Simply"? how is tens of thousands of dollars... simply?

 

[P Andersson]

Generally people that are not concerned have the funds to upgrade to an Epic and are excited. At this point its a money game... RED socialism just got killed last night. The options are to sell your RED One or muster up 20k or way more for an Epic.

it will still be possible to use the base model scarlet and do a perfectly beautiful anti establishment propaganda movie

 

[Jeremy Newmark]

"Simply"? how is tens of thousands of dollars... simply?

Look, can we afford to upgrade to Epic? Probably not. But you can buy the $7000 5K S35 scarlet brain and build from that. The specs on that system make it an upgrade from the Red One in my mind. And we can even keep our Red One as is (which we will have used for over a year at that point) and get a 12% discount towards this new scarlet system.

I know some will disagree with me on this, but it's just hard for me to believe that anyone feels like they are getting cheated here. These are professional products we are talking about and the price point on these systems is insane compared to the rest of the industry.

 

[Craig Schober]

I know some will disagree with me on this, but it's just hard for me to believe that anyone feels like they are getting cheated here. These are professional products we are talking about and the price point on these systems is insane compared to the rest of the industry.

when you take into account all the new offerings, the industry in general and all the new or soon-to-be red customers coming onboard, it's a great announcement but...

i have to agree that it bothers us early adopters moreso than others. i have funds to upgrade to an epic but i never fully bought into the 5k/6k/8k or 300fps hype so i always planned on upgrading my red one sensor for a reasonable price. however, we were promised a substantial increase in dynamic range and sensitivity via a sensor upgrade path for the red one. and we were also assured that red would reward those who got in early. now it feels like neither of those promises are being met.

but there is still a long time to go before new products and upgrades appear so i am confident that red will do right by all of their customers including me.

 

[Lewis-M Soucy]

What's wrong with your Red ones? Anybody forgot they have the best camera in the world yet? Does a new camera make yours crap? Think really hard about what you can do with what you have and stop bitching. Todays announcement is just about Reds new products. I'm happy, excited even because I'm part of the Red family, but my camera didn't become obsolete and useless all of a sudden. It's gonna be years before that Red One is equalled by anything else. Earth rotates, time flies, life goes on, what else is new?

 

[Miltos Pilalitos]

What's wrong with your Red ones?

I guess you are late to the party but many of as early adopters bought the RED idea before all the fantastic footage sold it to the rest of the world. What sold it to as was the promise of the best digital cinema camera we could actually afford (promise KEPT) and the famous "obsolescence obsolete" phrase that was everywhere we could see.

Today we know more or less the specs of the new sensors and the one that actually could be considered an upgrade for our RED ONEs is already out of reach.

So, nobody said that there is something wrong with our cameras besides the fact that they are not as modular as we were led to believe. I believed that my sensor would benefit from RED's research on sensor technology but the *REAL* benefit will go the new cameras instead.

Or so it seems at the moment...

 

[Justin O'Neill]

I keep getting the feeling people who are unsatisfied with RED's upgrade offerings thought the R1 sensor upgrade would be only a couple thousand dollars. I guess time will tell but most people were estimating the R1 upgrade would be closer to $10k. That makes the EPIC upgrade an absolutely incredible deal.

 

[Charles Angus]

RED is offering a fantastic and unprecedented upgrade path.

If you give a mouse a cookie...

 

[conrad gaunt]

I'm sorry but I just have a real hard time with these statements. I think we need to look at it with a little perspective. Jim always said that the Red One would be upgradeable, and it is. If you think that Epic is the answer, then you simply trade in your Red One (which you've been able to use and make money off of) for a full credit towards an epic. That alone is unheard of. But on top of that, the Red One already delivers way more then was ever promised. Even if it didn't receive an upgrade for another year, this camera simply produces incredible images as it stands now. We replaced a Sony F900 that we had for 3 years with our Red One, and just from a price point, it was incredible that we could do that, not to mention the drastic improvement that we got from the quality of the images. Even if the camera didn't change for the next two years, I could shoot with it and not have any room to complain about the quality of the images it produces. Can it get better? Of course, technology changes and always gets better, but the promise made was that it would always be upgradeable (and not for free). The camera gets better with every build, which is free, and will get better with every sensor upgrade, which you have to expect to pay for. I'm not trying to kiss Red's ass here, I'm just trying to be realistic. They are offering us more than reasonable choices. Just my 1/2 cent.

I still have image problems, and the codec can't improve because the "brain" ain't upgradeable. Maybe I missed the b17 codec improvements.. Many of us feel like the R1 is a beta camera, and paying again for fixes ain't a reward. I see my investment becoming obscelete as clients buy a Scarlet, my loyalty is to my investors, not a viral marketing campaign. Just my half shilling.

 

[Miltos Pilalitos]

If you give a mouse a cookie...

I am not sure i understand how this sentence applies to this topic. Are you trying to provoke someone? I paid for everything i got with money i earned working hard.

RED is offering a fantastic and unprecedented upgrade path.

If +1 stop of dynamic range is the unprecedented upgrade to you when what is possible is +3 with 16bit then i am jealous of your ability to be satisfied so easily.

In my mind, when i was told that "we make obsolescence obsolete" i understood that if RED developed Monstro it would be something i could benefit from by installing it to my RED one not by buying a new camera around it.