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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red One MX vs Canon 1d x mii

ok figured out the All Star A mount system...there were at least 3 bayonet rings (that came with my purchased set) for 3 mount systems contax c/y, contax G? and Nikon F. Upfront they all look similar but the backside was the key to making them fit a certain lens mount system...minute differences only.

I used my Nikon 35mm 1.8 G lens for the initial test. I forced the aperture open by placing a cut piece of flat clip used for sealing and placing the expiration date of loaf breads:yesnod: in the spring loaded aperture knob. It worked.

My initial settings (indoor night) were asa 800, 1/48, AWB, f1.8?? one overhead fluorescent bulb (I promise to use my Aputure LS1 tomorrow) REDcode42, REDlogFilm, 4k HD.

As to be expected, the footage was a bit noisy. This camera needs a lot of light.


Can anyone share the best settings to shoot on this cam when it comes to whether RC42 and Redlogfilm are the best to use, thanks.
 
R1 MX and Red Epic -X in my opinion was for film makers to go digital so they wouldn't burn a ton of film. The R1 was before it's time and people are sleeping on it, It's unmatched to this date like the 35 mm film camera. When you see the results you know it was film or the redone. Look at the book of ELi that was shot with the R1. I love my R1 and Epic-x because they ware my dream cameras for what I want to do.
 
David Peterson said:
Yes, the older MX sensor needs a LOT of light, especially compared to many more modern cameras.

Also buy some older Nikons which have the aperture ring on the lens. Will save you needing to use little wads of paper.
Click to expand...

Yes I ordered the best 28mm on the planet...the Nikon 28mm ais
 
I still need feedback on which gamma settings in camera is best to use
 
Al Merto said:
ok figured out the All Star A mount system...there were at least 3 bayonet rings (that came with my purchased set) for 3 mount systems contax c/y, contax G? and Nikon F. Upfront they all look similar but the backside was the key to making them fit a certain lens mount system...minute differences only.

I used my Nikon 35mm 1.8 G lens for the initial test. I forced the aperture open by placing a cut piece of flat clip used for sealing and placing the expiration date of loaf breads:yesnod: in the spring loaded aperture knob. It worked.

My initial settings (indoor night) were asa 800, 1/48, AWB, f1.8?? one overhead fluorescent bulb (I promise to use my Aputure LS1 tomorrow) REDcode42, REDlogFilm, 4k HD.

As to be expected, the footage was a bit noisy. This camera needs a lot of light.


Can anyone share the best settings to shoot on this cam when it comes to whether RC42 and Redlogfilm are the best to use, thanks.
Click to expand...

Hey Al,

monitoring with REDlogFilm is mainly used for applying a LUT onto the image which would require an external device or monitor that can read LUTs.
Unless you're using LUTs like described, you would be best to set the camera using REDCOLOR 3 and REDGAMMA 3.
This setting is relatively matched to the REC709 standard.
RED never made an update in the RED ONE to monitor in REDGAMMA 4 though you can apply that setting in post.


I'm not surprised you saw noise in the REDlogFilm setting as that gamma naturally has considerably raised black level as it's supposed to.
Log is supposed to visually "compress" the tonal ranges (shadows raised and bright areas lowered) so they can be normalized with a LUT or color correction.

Understand that you would likely only use REDCOLOR3/REDGAMMA3 for your monitoring while filming.
You would still want to keep an eye on your exposure tools (histogram, traffic light indicators for clipping, and False Color) to have a better idea of where you are in your exposure. For highlights, toggling the RAW view mode (I usually make a hotkey shortcut for this) is good to see exactly what your sensor might be clipping.

Another thing to realize is the Color and Gamma settings you see available in the RED ONE are the older IPP (Image Processing Pipeline)
settings. RED has since developed a newer IPP2 that works a bit different in terms of selecting the color and gamma looks.
While there is no functionality within the RED ONE for monitoring with IPP2 you can still process the RAW image through IPP2 iin post thus still getting the full benefits of IPP2 (improved gamma, color, highlights, demosaicing, wider gamut).

This may seem confusing but remember that these are metadata settings applied over a RAW image.
It's not like you can screw up the image with the wrong setting. Having said that you can still screw up the image if you don't expose it correctly though RAW does help give you some options to lessen the blow. Again, TEST.

Concerning low light. I would continue to test particularly once you lock down how you will monitor and the Image Pipeline you decide to use in post.
There are many variables in the statement of low light performance for a given camera (gamma settings, lens, how dark the environment actually is, etc) to give a definitive statement.

There are some cameras that are somewhat deceptive in their low light performance as they either employ some type of in camera noise reduction or
they push the black levels down thus hiding the noise. I've also seen some shotty tests of a camera filming at 5000 ISO in late afternoon (seemingly noiseless) which give you different results than filming at midnight under a sodium vapor light (gets noisy).

The RED ONE MX can be pushed well enough. While you won't necessarily get a noiseless image at 3200 and above in a dark alley, you do have a good starting point for applying noise reduction in post that can clean up the image quite well if using Neat Video or Resolve's noise reduction.
Unless you're shooting news, noise reduction is best done in post as you get better quality and one can dial the reduction in better.

2 things going in the RED ONE MX's favor is the type of noise is more luminance as opposed to chroma which is easier to clean up and output once compressed for delivery. The MX also has minimal Fixed Pattern Noise which can be an issue on some camera sensors.

The one thing I would keep an eye on when grading high ISO RED ONE MX footage is the Blue channel.
I notice the blue channel of the image tends to get noisier quicker is higher (brighter) in the shadows of the image than other channels. You might even notice a blue tint to your shadows. I normally fix this by manually bringing the blue curve down in the shadows and in alignment with the RED and GREEN channels when color correcting.

The other piece of advice is to BLACK SHADE the camera if you ever perform a software update, experience a change in environment temperature, or if filming in situations that require a longer shutter, and a darker environment.
I'm not a camera engineer but at the end of the day it helps calibrate the camera to better mange those shooting scenarios.

Hope this helps.

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA
 
Al Merto said:
Yes I ordered the best 28mm on the planet...the Nikon 28mm ais
Click to expand...

Sweet! I have that and some other AIS lenses myself.

You might also look out for some faster lenses than f2.8, for when that MX sensor needs even more light
 
David Peterson said:
Sweet! I have that and some other AIS lenses myself.

You might also look out for some faster lenses than f2.8, for when that MX sensor needs even more light
Click to expand...

I got the Samyang 85mm 1.4 incoming.
 
Brian Timmons said:
Hey Al,

monitoring with REDlogFilm is mainly used for applying a LUT onto the image which would require an external device or monitor that can read LUTs.
Unless you're using LUTs like described, you would be best to set the camera using REDCOLOR 3 and REDGAMMA 3.
This setting is relatively matched to the REC709 standard.
RED never made an update in the RED ONE to monitor in REDGAMMA 4 though you can apply that setting in post.


I'm not surprised you saw noise in the REDlogFilm setting as that gamma naturally has considerably raised black level as it's supposed to.
Log is supposed to visually "compress" the tonal ranges (shadows raised and bright areas lowered) so they can be normalized with a LUT or color correction.

Understand that you would likely only use REDCOLOR3/REDGAMMA3 for your monitoring while filming.
You would still want to keep an eye on your exposure tools (histogram, traffic light indicators for clipping, and False Color) to have a better idea of where you are in your exposure. For highlights, toggling the RAW view mode (I usually make a hotkey shortcut for this) is good to see exactly what your sensor might be clipping.

Another thing to realize is the Color and Gamma settings you see available in the RED ONE are the older IPP (Image Processing Pipeline)
settings. RED has since developed a newer IPP2 that works a bit different in terms of selecting the color and gamma looks.
While there is no functionality within the RED ONE for monitoring with IPP2 you can still process the RAW image through IPP2 iin post thus still getting the full benefits of IPP2 (improved gamma, color, highlights, demosaicing, wider gamut).

This may seem confusing but remember that these are metadata settings applied over a RAW image.
It's not like you can screw up the image with the wrong setting. Having said that you can still screw up the image if you don't expose it correctly though RAW does help give you some options to lessen the blow. Again, TEST.

Concerning low light. I would continue to test particularly once you lock down how you will monitor and the Image Pipeline you decide to use in post.
There are many variables in the statement of low light performance for a given camera (gamma settings, lens, how dark the environment actually is, etc) to give a definitive statement.

There are some cameras that are somewhat deceptive in their low light performance as they either employ some type of in camera noise reduction or
they push the black levels down thus hiding the noise. I've also seen some shotty tests of a camera filming at 5000 ISO in late afternoon (seemingly noiseless) which give you different results than filming at midnight under a sodium vapor light (gets noisy).

The RED ONE MX can be pushed well enough. While you won't necessarily get a noiseless image at 3200 and above in a dark alley, you do have a good starting point for applying noise reduction in post that can clean up the image quite well if using Neat Video or Resolve's noise reduction.
Unless you're shooting news, noise reduction is best done in post as you get better quality and one can dial the reduction in better.

2 things going in the RED ONE MX's favor is the type of noise is more luminance as opposed to chroma which is easier to clean up and output once compressed for delivery. The MX also has minimal Fixed Pattern Noise which can be an issue on some camera sensors.

The one thing I would keep an eye on when grading high ISO RED ONE MX footage is the Blue channel.
I notice the blue channel of the image tends to get noisier quicker is higher (brighter) in the shadows of the image than other channels. You might even notice a blue tint to your shadows. I normally fix this by manually bringing the blue curve down in the shadows and in alignment with the RED and GREEN channels when color correcting.

The other piece of advice is to BLACK SHADE the camera if you ever perform a software update, experience a change in environment temperature, or if filming in situations that require a longer shutter, and a darker environment.
I'm not a camera engineer but at the end of the day it helps calibrate the camera to better mange those shooting scenarios.

Hope this helps.

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA
Click to expand...

Great tips.

Can you give your opinion on this tutorial:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqcapEgfK2U
 
Some of the info (Color Management) is specific to Resolve but it does
a decent job of showing IPP2 with RED footage.

The trick with REDRAW is you have so many options that it can seem overwhelming to people used to one set workflow.
Consider matching the options based on the end result you want.

HDR workflow is also becoming more important for deliverables so you might consider a workflow that can accommodate that as well traditional standard gamma delivery.

I can't stress testing enough. Try a test related to some of your trickier shots (higher contrast, lower light, etc) and take them through post.
This is where you will learn a lot about the camera and workflow and build familiarity with how the camera behaves.
As long as you expose well (protect those highlights, know your limits in the shadows) you can take a RED image to a lot of looks.

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA
 
Brian Timmons said:
Some of the info (Color Management) is specific to Resolve but it does
a decent job of showing IPP2 with RED footage.

The trick with REDRAW is you have so many options that it can seem overwhelming to people used to one set workflow.
Consider matching the options based on the end result you want.

HDR workflow is also becoming more important for deliverables so you might consider a workflow that can accommodate that as well traditional standard gamma delivery.

I can't stress testing enough. Try a test related to some of your trickier shots (higher contrast, lower light, etc) and take them through post.
This is where you will learn a lot about the camera and workflow and build familiarity with how the camera behaves.
As long as you expose well (protect those highlights, know your limits in the shadows) you can take a RED image to a lot of looks.

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA
Click to expand...

Amen bro.
 
Looks cool Al.

I especially like the shot at :12 and the last shot.

The walking shot is pretty tricky with a longer lens.

These shots look like they were all RED. Is that the case?

How did you feel shooting in natural light?

Do you think you have a handle on working with R3Ds?

So far so good.
Look forward to seeing more.

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA
 
All RED.

All shot with a 28mm prime.

Graded on Davinci.

Hand held shots are stable but a workout with all that weight.

Shooting in natural light is workable with RAW clips just add grain in post haha...
 
I cropped in that shot in post.

I went straight to Davinci older color science.
 
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