Red One Day at Filmtools

[Hrvoje Simic]

Just stumbled upon this at Filmtools website:

Filmtools & All-in-one-Truck are presenting a Red One Demo Day. Rain or Shine

Filmtools & All-in-one-Truck are holding a Red One Demo Day February 23rd from 11:00am until 4:00pm at Filmtools, 1400 Burbank Blvd, Burbank, CA
If you would like to shoot one of two Red One Cameras, bring your own eSATA or firewire drive (formated for Mac) and take the footage home.

 

[Andrew Walker]

That's cool of them. I might have to go by there tomorrow and see what's going on.

 

[NateWeaver]

What I'd really like to see is an "expo" of ET gear.

I wonder if Stephen is going to be there. If not, he should.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

What I'd really like to see is an "expo" of ET gear.

I wonder if Stephen is going to be there. If not, he should.

He'll be in the shop making gear is my guess.

 

[Andrew Walker]

So I went to this today and it was kind of cool. The two guys there had two Red Ones and a camper that had been converted into a makeup/digital room. Most of the people there didn't know much about the Red. But they got to play with them and take home the footage they recorded.

 

[Shane V8F]

Just found out that All in One Truck is giving a complete RED package out for $500 a day. And so it starts!!

I predicted that rental rates for the RED would drop, but I figured we had at least a year or longer. I can't comprehend why a RED should rent for less then a HDX-900 when the quality is light years beyond.

All I know is that when I need a second camera I know who I will call. I hope his camera survives the kind of client he will be attracting for $500.

 

[Shawn Nelson]

Just found out that All in One Truck is giving a complete RED package out for $500 a day. And so it starts!!

I predicted that rental rates for the RED would drop, but I figured we had at least a year or longer. I can't comprehend why a RED should rent for less then a HDX-900 when the quality is light years beyond.

All I know is that when I need a second camera I know who I will call. I hope his camera survives the kind of client he will be attracting for $500.

Red should never, EVER, rent for a dime less than a Varicam or F900 package. In fact, those two prices should never be close. If Red goes to $500, then F900 setups better be $350.

 

[Kevin Lang]

The two guys there had two Red Ones and a camper that had been converted into a makeup/digital room. Most of the people there didn't know much about the Red. But they got to play with them and take home the footage they recorded.

Unbelievable!!!! And for $500 aday, it looks like this is happening sooner then later! A camper!! WOW! It may be better for all of us to just not get our cameras and just rent them from these guys!

A few years ago I had a pd150 it made alot of money, I then got a DVX100 thinking cool 24p everyone is going to want that and they did alot of them bought one and then the HVX comes out thinking again Wow people are really going to want this, they sure did everyone owns one barely made a dime on that thing. Now the Red........

 

[Alexander Nikishin]

Sorry, but I have to say it, they're fucking idiots for renting it out at that rate.

 

[Shane V8F]

Red Rates

Red Rates

I talked to them asking why they would rent for that price. His response was that his clients can only afford that much. This is not a reason to let a great piece of gear like the RED out for $500. His RED package is very impressive as well. I wish he was at least getting double what he was asking. I am sure he could rent the camera out just as much for $1000 a day.

I was so excited to get my RED but with the market crashing already I am tempted to sell it. I knew I was not going to get rich with my RED, but I was hoping to pay it off before the technology becomes obsolete and I wanted to keep ahead of my lease payments.

I can not in good conscious rent my RED out for that rate. I would rather let the camera just sit in its case until someone wants to pay a real rental rate. I would like to see these low ballers change their ways. I don't have a problem letting fellow O&O's rent my gear at a lower rate, but I feel that when a production calls they should pay close to the going rate. Trust me, If they want to use the camera they will pay a normal rate for it.

If I was a producer and herd about this new camera called the RED, and wanted to use it on a shoot, but I was told a full package rents out for $500 a day, I would think that it must be a piece of "crap".

I know that the RED rental prices will figure itself out, but at these low prices the medium price will end up being a lot lower then it should.

I just saw another forum where someone was renting their RED out with a DIT for $200 a day.

THIS PEOPLE HAS GOT TO STOP!!!!!

 

[laguun]

Red should never, EVER, rent for a dime less than a Varicam or F900 package. In fact, those two prices should never be close. If Red goes to $500, then F900 setups better be $350.

Shawn, i suppose we will see red at the usual ~0.5-1.5% of its new price a day once there is more offer than demand.

F900/750 have lots of uses red doesnt fullfill, are much more expensive and much rarer. I would be surprised if red rental rates will be much lower than hdcam rates this winter.

DOF and resolution are not the only qualifiers for the rental going price.

 

[laguun]

I talked to them asking why they would rent for that price. His response was that his clients can only afford that much. This is not a reason to let a great piece of gear like the RED out for $500. His RED package is very impressive as well. I wish he was at least getting double what he was asking. I am sure he could rent the camera out just as much for $1000 a day.

right now if he is lucky - yes, later on this year probably not.

I can not in good conscious rent my RED out for that rate. I would rather let the camera just sit in its case until someone wants to pay a real rental rate. I would like to see these low ballers change their ways...
...
I know that the RED rental prices will figure itself out, but at these low prices the medium price will end up being a lot lower then it should.

0.5-1.5% daily rate of list price are usual in pro rental.

If I was a producer and herd about this new camera called the RED, and wanted to use it on a shoot, but I was told a full package rents out for $500 a day, I would think that it must be a piece of "crap".

clever producers know that there have been many product who completly changed the "you get what you pay for" (negative and positive examples come to my mind )

I just saw another forum where someone was renting their RED out with a DIT for $200 a day.

thats is to low.

THIS PEOPLE HAS GOT TO STOP!!!!!

I suppose it is just beginning - rental negotiations are tough business, and for fully professional rental one camera isnt enough, you should have spares for bodies and for the lenses.

 

[Mike Prevette]

and welcome to the rental biz folks. What did you guys expect?

nothing new about lowball renters, I'm guessing that his clientell is a fair bit different than your average Clairmont, Abel Cine, or CSC clientell. Price isn't enough to make most people jump ship from their standard rental houses.

That being said, does he also require the rental of his grip truck to get that price?

 

[Mark Mannschreck]

I wouldn't worry so much about all this... seriously. A red package with "DIT" @ $250 is fine. This "DIT" will be learning at this time and productions with budgets won't risk someone green. Camera packages that are renting for $500/day WILL be abused... People will do with their cameras as they wish. Red camera rental was really never going to be lucrative business with the sheer numbers out there. Seems to me they are (and will be) perfect for the owner/operator. I can pick which camera I want to use on a project. Productions usually hire the person, not the person with the right camera. I don't always pick my Red. FYI - people calling themselves "DIT's" because they have and rent their Red are a far cry from real DIT's and their extensive knowledge of multiple camera systems. Those people amaze me.

 

[Bruce Allen]

Hmm, is that as a $500 add-on to the $2000 / day truck, or can the Red package be rented separately? It's a great deal either way.

Shawn, Red is a bit of a hard sell in some parts because its workflow is not compatible with current systems, not very good with Avid, etc yet without additional investment in a Scratch system. You can make it work, but it's a pain.

Reduser is also giving the camera a bit of a bad rep - the FCP zealot comments help give outsiders the impression that the Red company itself is similarly strongly biased.

If you guys want to keep Red rental prices high, please ask Red to make the fit into the workflow of the majority of high-end clients. At the moment, it doesn't, and the F900 etc do so much better.

Until then you can only rent to:
1. indie folks with no budget but lots of smarts and a copy of FCP
2. people who have relationships with the small number of progressive finishing houses that can process Red footage cheaply, quickly and at high quality, and get it into their system.

There's your problem IMHO.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

 

[NateWeaver]

I can't see myself shopping there anylonger.

Oh please. You're holding Filmtools responsible for rental rates you're not happy with?

Couple things:

1-It's already established that cameras going for $500-$600 are bare bones rigs, without proper rental house support. You'll get one lens for that rate (the 18-50), probably only 2 batteries, no sticks/head, etc etc etc.

For a $25,000 investment, that kind of rate is about right, actually, going on the rates common for XDCAM, HPX500, etc etc.

2-You want the good toys, you're going to pay. Nobody with good, modern lenses and support gear is letting it go for peanuts. In fact, nobody with that kind of investment is letting it go for much less than what they have been. Red cam with MPs, UPs, Optimo? Add $1000 to non-bare bones body rate of $700ish. Feel better about your rates now?

I'm quite sure that people getting $500 packages will get their money's worth in usability.

And another thing! What did everybody think was going to happen to rental rates when 1000 units are dumped on a global market!?!?!

But for it to be a company of their size, just to get there truck going and sell more equipment

You do realize All-In-One-Truck has nothing to do with Filmtools, other than they know each other, right?

 

[Jason Ing]

All I know is that when I need a second camera I know who I will call.

That's exactly why it's low. And if cameras are kept in cases and will only be let out for the higher price, that's just more for this guy who will keep his camera constantly rented.

Don't get me wrong. I love the Red and to me it's top Grade A quality that logically should rent higher then lower quality cameras. I'm just pointing out that this guy's mentality is closer to Red's Revolution then "corporate" guys who want to make the bucks.

Red is not a revolution just because of what the camera is and can do, but because (to me), Jim Jannard put it at a price point that democratizes (sp?) the big boy hollywood system.

It's comical that some people are running around waving a Red flag and yelling "Revolution" and then they stop dead in their tracks with disappointment and start crying when they see that their fellow Revolutionaries are also running right through the rentals business sector and cutting their profits.

 

[NateWeaver]

Jim Jannard put it at a price point that democratizes (sp?) the big boy hollywood system.

It's comical that some people are running around waving a Red flag and yelling "Revolution" and then they stop dead in their tracks with disappointment and start crying when they see that their fellow Revolutionaries are also running right through the rentals business sector and cutting their profits. :bleh:

Or in other words, there's no free lunch.

Once the quality bar is raised for a certain price level of camera, you're not going to have 3000 cameras out there all making the same rental rates as the previous generation.

This is all basic economics. A $30K camera is not going to have the same earning power as a $150k package. Picture quality has nothing to do with it.

 

[BigLu]

I apologize for my miss understanding.
I screwed up and I retract this message.
My total mistake.
Once again
I am sorry.

 

[NateWeaver]

Filmtools does NOT have a truck, nor are they renting Reds.

This was an "expo" from somebody else. He just did in their parking lot, that's it.

[edit: no sweat. At least you saw the light ]