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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red One Day at Filmtools

[/QUOTE]1-It's already established that cameras going for $500-$600 are bare bones rigs, without proper rental house support. You'll get one lens for that rate (the 18-50), probably only 2 batteries, no sticks/head, etc etc etc.[/QUOTE]


His RED Package is not bare bones at all. He has a brand new top of the line MB and FF as well as an oconnor head and sticks. He has glass as well. He mentioned that he already has over $60 thousand in his RED package. I believe the camera can be rented for this price without the truck, but for the price why not rent the truck and him as well. He even throws in a 25 Jimmy Jib.

I am not blaming the guy, in fact if he feels like working that hard to make a buck, more power to him. This just makes it easier for other O&O's to have the attitude, "If you cant beat them you might as well join them".

I love this business and have been at it for more then 20 years. I just know that the major productions expect to pay a certain amount for their gear, and when they see it going at a rock bottom price when it is brand new tech, they tend to react the opposite of what normal people would. They think it must not work very well that is why it is so cheep.
 
Make sure you've got the facts right

Make sure you've got the facts right

Hey guys,

I know Kelly and his rig. He's renting out the Red w/his truck, not seperately. Therefore a client is not able to just get the camera w/out the rest of his gear. So, I think it's not quite accurate to say the camera goes for 500 a day. However, if you have a low to mid-sized budget, his truck can take care of alot of different line items at once. Which makes it tempting to use him instead of someone with just a camera.

Just wanted to get the facts straight.

Cheers,
Chris Wedding
www.DpChris.com
 
Shane V8F said:
His RED Package is not bare bones at all. He has a brand new top of the line MB and FF as well as an oconnor head and sticks. He has glass as well. He mentioned that he already has over $60 thousand in his RED package.
Click to expand...

I saw. I was speaking of the market at large, not what he was doing specifically. My point was that MOST cutting rates aggressively are not putting a lot in the package for the price.

I have no beef with Kelly whatsoever. Seems like a damn hard worker to me, and a a great guy.
 
Hello all, this is Kelly.

Hello all, this is Kelly.

I just wanted to let everyone know what I'm up to with my "$500 a day Red Rental". I provide an "All-in-One" equipment package to a VERY, VERY low budget film production niche. My average client in trying to shoot a feature length film for about $100,000. My truck goes out for $6,000 a week. When I added the Red I raised it to $9,000. If you're shooting a six day week, that would be $500 a day for the camera. However, I do not rent the camera out separately, only as part of my package (I never let any of my gear out of my sight). Please know that it is not my intension to "low ball" the market for Red rentals. The Red package I put together ran about $50,000, and 1% of the retail value, per day, has been the standard in the rental business for a while. That's not to say that you shouldn't get more. We live in a supply and demand economy, and I totally support your ability to get what ever the market will bare.

Thanks, Kelly
www.all-in-one-truck.com
 
AIOT has an awesome rig

AIOT has an awesome rig

ALL IN ONE is an awesome set up and he is a very nice gentleman. I was not trying to pick on him specifically, and if you thought that, I apologize. I hope to be able to hire him in the near future.

I guess I had a pipe dream that this new camera would allow the common shlub like me to be able to have some nice gear that would make me a few bucks. I just wish that for at least a little while the RED package rates could stay at a level that is justified.

I have just began playing with my camera, and it shoots awesome, but the work flow is a whole other story.

I wish all the early adopters the best of luck with their REDs and I hope that in a crowded market such as LA we will all be able to get along, and make this work out for everyone. Not everyone that wants to use the RED will buy, so there should be plenty of work for everyone in the next couple of months. AS the episodic and sitcoms start shooting with the RED, there is going to be a huge demand for good RED packages.

ALL IN ONE is definitely in the business because he loves it as do I.
 
I've said this for a while:

If you're NOT a rental business (with all the bells and whistles), it is important that you have enough work YOURSELF to defend your RED purchase.

Sure. Tons of people will want those nice images, but there's gonna be too many cams and too many cams treated wrongly.

My guess is that in a year from now, you can pick up a 2nd hand RED for 5000$ - 10.000$ (body only).

This gives ridiculos rental foresights, if you're into lo-fi rentals.

Red is a game-changer (for me it is, at least), but more in the way that 1 year from now, you'll need to offer one (or a comparable solutions, not to be out.

There won't be a particular advantage in owning one, but I think there's going to be a particular disadvantage NOT being able to offer a RAW/s35mm image and workflow.

On another note, the clumsy workflow is quite a businessoportunity @ the moment...

Sorry if this sounds negative. Not intended to be! But go figure:
Norway's gonna have 30 reds for a total market of 4,5 mill people.

I don't know if anyone even partially owns a F23...

In other words:
We will get paid for the images we make, not the camera we own.
Having/being a good photographer and good understanding for the workflow and infrastructure (both knowledge and equipment) is what is going to pay our bills. Not owning a camera.

And that's how it's always been.

To make money from rental only, you'll need a huge volume and a solid back-end. You don't get that from buying a camera.

Gunleik
 
Yes, Red is a game changer. Yes, many rental prices are based on the 1% of purchace price. Not all gear rents at 1%!!! The barger baglight cost $1700ish and rents for $150 all over town, thats 12%ish. Small Dv & Hdv cameras costing $4-10,000 rent for $250-$400 all the time.

Put on your business caps guys! Red has a buz and a demand right now. It is is hot! Get what you can. I am not saying rape your clients but don't give it away! Your hurting yourself and all of us Red owners.

There is no reason to start low on the rental pricing, it will get there in due time, treditionally 2-4 years in the rental biz (or when the Red-Two hits the street)
 
500-700 day for a basic Red package ?
seems like a fair rate to me ... why should a item that cost 25k rent out as much as a 65k item ?

IMO there is only ONE solution to keep a RED package above F900's ..
RED has got to raise the price to at least 125k - all of us that paid 17,500 will now pay another 100k then we should be able to keep the price above a F900?

i just don't quite understand why everybody is so thankful to Red for the 17,500 price and then wants to charge rentals as if it cost 100K+ ?
for the 1st 100 reds they could charge based on suppy & demand .. today the supply has changed and it is going to come down to rental based on cost of Red ( 2-3%)...
 
IMHO you can't make a living off just renting the RED if you are an indie.

But there is nothing stopping you selling RED stock images, going as a DIT with the camera, using it on your own jobs...

Plenty of ways to make your investment work for you, not least saving yourself the rental costs every time you shoot a project.
 
donatello said:
500-700 day for a basic Red package ?
seems like a fair rate to me ... why should a item that cost 25k rent out as much as a 65k item ?

IMO there is only ONE solution to keep a RED package above F900's ..
RED has got to raise the price to at least 125k - all of us that paid 17,500 will now pay another 100k then we should be able to keep the price above a F900?

i just don't quite understand why everybody is so thankful to Red for the 17,500 price and then wants to charge rentals as if it cost 100K+ ?
for the 1st 100 reds they could charge based on suppy & demand .. today the supply has changed and it is going to come down to rental based on cost of Red ( 2-3%)...
Click to expand...

Well put donatello. Point well made. It's funny how the REDvolutionaries often become the old guard when it come to passing the savings along to their customers. The fact is the RED deployment (if it catches on) will render the camera a commodity with lessened market value and exponentially increase R3D content. Clearly the only successful business model must be one of post workflow! Forget about the camera, every tom dick & harry will have one. Create a workable post solution to deal with all that new content and you will have more work then know what to do with. OffHollywood is clearly headed in this direction and if RED takes off they will go along for the ride.

Charging a higher rental rate for red is akin to charging $$ per pixel. That idea wont stand simply because there will be too many cameras out there (Jim & Co. will make sure of that). I've said it before - your success as a renter is inversely proportional to RED's efficacy as a company.
 
any producer could find about a thousand people with an HVX200 and rent it, with the owner, for practically pennies a day.

The producers I work for do not go this route. They rent their HVX200's (when they need them) from their trusted rental companies, and pay $300 a day.

It is this philosophy that will make different rental prices work for different owners. Hey, this 'all in one truck' guy said it himself. His clients are extrememly low budget. And with RED, he CAN offer them something amazing that works within their budget.

Are big name commercials going to start calling ONLY him because they can save $500 (or even $1,000) on their camera rental package. Hell no.

It all comes down to who you know. Who are your clients now? How do they operate?

I work in the commercial film business, and my clients will gladly pay fair market value for their RED rental. They won't be scouring the web looking for an individual owner/operator that may save them $500 on their day. They will go to who they trust. This is how the film business works. And it will continue to work this way.

So these 'low-ballers' out there are just servicing a segment of the market. Don't be scared of it. It won't drag the whole rental of RED systems down to their level.

Rent it for whatever you want, and if you have a client base that trusts you....you'll be fine. As long as you rent it for a fair price and offer top notch service.
 
$500 day

$500 day

"My truck goes out for $6,000 a week. When I added the Red I raised it to $9,000. If you're shooting a six day week, that would be $500 a day for the camera."

That's $3000 a week. Most rental companies give you a three day week. That makes the camera $1000 a day. Am I wrong? What lens package?

bob
 
Baab said:
"My truck goes out for $6,000 a week. When I added the Red I raised it to $9,000. If you're shooting a six day week, that would be $500 a day for the camera."

That's $3000 a week. Most rental companies give you a three day week. That makes the camera $1000 a day. Am I wrong? What lens package?

bob
Click to expand...

Exactly, he IS NOT renting it for $500 a day. I charge roughly $1000 a day for local productions, based on a three day week. So our price is one and the same. Sheesh, I hate the misrepresentation.
 
gunleik said:
. . . .

We will get paid for the images we make, not the camera we own.
Having/being a good photographer and good understanding for the workflow and infrastructure (both knowledge and equipment) is what is going to pay our bills. Not owning a camera.

Gunleik
Click to expand...

Amen, brother.
 
Yeah plus he is selling with a bigger package that a student looking to spend 5 bills could not afford. I am scared though of the owner who rents a full package for 500 a day. I don't care what any of you say that will be bad for me.
 
neat meeting fellow RED people there in Burbank.

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Here is the set:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikehedge/sets/72157603984713863/

anyone else on flickr?

mike
 
Filmtools will always endeavor to support the production community. As it turns out Kelly Herron attracted quite a few people out to his All-In-One Truck at Filmtools a few weeks back.

Many of you might want to think about this... Now you have your camera, and you don't have any more money for your productions, you are going to need a lot more than a camera body, a 1030 head, and a set of lenses...for the owner operator, you're going to need all the other stuff it takes to pull of a successful day's shoot.

Kelly 's truck is not a converted camper....it's a custom built truck where everything rolls out on carts.. HMI lighting, tungsten, Kino flows, 20x20 silks, flags, cutters, ...walkie talkies, camera crane, generators, the whole deal. So if you have a production ...use YOUR RED ONE, and rent his support gear....and oh yeah....if you need a 2nd camera body...all you have to do is ask Kelly to whip his Red One out...There is no charge if you don't use his...but if you do want it, at the last minute, you pay only a modest fee. Now that's a deal!

Kelly is not a shooter, he's not going after the same jobs as you, he's a production service provider who's available to all of you. His expertise is in rigging, gripping and lighting. You can use him for his muscles, or his knowledge, or both. He's an ally, not a threat.

If any of you would like to set up shop in our parking lot, like Kelly Herron did, just drop me a note. We're here for you. That's what Filmtools is all about.

-Stan McClain-
 
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