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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED ONE build 32

Jarred,
any chance you might open the Red One to non-Red CF cards ? Things have changed since a few years ago, there are 64 GB CF cards available which seem to be pretty fast at a decent price. They should be able to handle the Red One data rates, right ? The 8 GB Lexar CF cards were able to handle RC28 from the beginning, and that was like 5 years ago. It's hard to believe that the most recent cards couldn't handle at least RC28, and probably also RC36 and RC42... Add a warning if you want to cover your asses ;)
 
Nils Ruinet said:
Jarred,
any chance you might open the Red One to non-Red CF cards ? Things have changed since a few years ago, there are 64 GB CF cards available which seem to be pretty fast at a decent price. They should be able to handle the Red One data rates, right ? The 8 GB Lexar CF cards were able to handle RC28 from the beginning, and that was like 5 years ago. It's hard to believe that the most recent cards couldn't handle at least RC28, and probably also RC36 and RC42... Add a warning if you want to cover your asses ;)
Click to expand...

I suspect this isn't the case sadly. I've only come across a couple of new ones that MIGHT be up to the job. Very often compact flash makers are promoting their READ speeds not the write speeds. It's the write speeds you need to look at assuming you can find them out at all.

I do believe that you are right that there might be some stuff that might work. There used to be a Sony card that worked looooong ago. When you start looking into it, it's less of them than you might imagine however.

Having said that it might be that some of the cards could handle 2k at the compression rates you are talking about... Maybe.

Would love to have an option for "do you wish to proceed anyway" tho...

Freya
 
Nils Ruinet said:
Jarred,
any chance you might open the Red One to non-Red CF cards ? Things have changed since a few years ago, there are 64 GB CF cards available which seem to be pretty fast at a decent price. They should be able to handle the Red One data rates, right ? The 8 GB Lexar CF cards were able to handle RC28 from the beginning, and that was like 5 years ago. It's hard to believe that the most recent cards couldn't handle at least RC28, and probably also RC36 and RC42... Add a warning if you want to cover your asses ;)
Click to expand...

Okay I take it back in all kinds of ways. I hadn't looked at the new 64gb compact flash cards, and they are kinda crazy. I'm seeing manufacturers claim a 3 fold increase in write speed going from 32gb to 64gb. I guess it's a similar thing to SSD's where the 128gb ones are much faster than the 64gb ones. Quite a shock tho. The write speeds (when you can find them) are usually maximum write speeds tho. Obviously the red one needs to be able to sustain those speeds over time.

The other thing is that I noticed Nils was more talking about compression than resolution and it made me go and look at what 2k was like at RC42. I used the RED recording time calculator, and usually I try and avoid looking at the bitrates as they are somewhat frightening. I forced myself to look this time.

25fps 2k @ RC42 works out at 7mb/s

Told you the numbers were scary!

25fps 2k @ RC28 comes to 5mb/s

So that's a huge 2mb/s difference!!!

I can't imagine there are many compact flash cards out there that can't cope with 7mb/s at this point!
I'm sure it must have been quite conservative to limit the cards to 5mb/s at the time!

Lets look at that again: 7mb/s Wow!

Can we please at least have RC42 enabled in 2k on compact flash cards? Please?

That has to be completely do-able and I think is entirely appropriate in a world with the black magic cinema camera shooting 2.5k to off the shelf media!

It might even be do-able to detect if a card is 64gig in size and enable slightly faster speeds too (although obviously that's more work!)

Freya
 
I'm pretty sure 2K and 3K 25fps are doable even at RC42 on any high end 64 GB CF card these days. Actually, I'm convinced that they would also work with 4K RC42.

4K HD is 38 MB/s at RC42 25P.
4K HD is 34 MB/s at RC36 25P.
4K HD is 27 MB/s at RC28 25P.

Lexar 8 GB cards were able to handle 4K 16/9 at RC28 if I remember well. That was like 5 years ago. Media tend to become faster as they grow bigger.

Lexar 64 GB and 128 GB CF cards claim to have 145 MB/s write speeds. Even if they were 3 times worse they could still handle 4K HD at RC42 easily. This has to be possible.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...GCTBNA1000_64GB_CompactFlash_Memory_Card.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...CTBNA1000_128GB_CompactFlash_Memory_Card.html

As a comparison, the 8 GB Lexar CF cards claimed 45 MB/S write speeds. And they did work fine, I think Soderbergh did use them on Che.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/895454-REG/Lexar_lcf8gbctbna800_8GB_Pro_Compact_Flash.html

Red, please ? ;)
 
Good find Nils!

The 145mb/s is the maximum possible write speed I suspect. Check out the way they weasel around, saying sustained read speeds but then they don't say sustained in relation to the write speeds. *sigh*

...but here is the big thing...

Supports Video Performance Guarantee (VPG-20) specification, meaning it's been tested and guaranteed for professional-quality, full HD video capture at up to 20MB/s. This allows for pro-quality full HD video capture at high frame rates--with zero dropped frames

WOW!

Now that's news! 20mb/s would mean at least 3k 25fps @ redcode42 :yesnod:
It would mean 4k and 4kHD 25fps @ redcode28
and possibly as much as 2k 100fps @ redcode28

YES! We need support for these cards! :)

:yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod:

Freya
 
Nils Ruinet said:
I'm pretty sure 2K and 3K 25fps are doable even at RC42 on any high end 64 GB CF card these days. Actually, I'm convinced that they would also work with 4K RC42.

;)
Click to expand...
Hey Nils
Do you know if anyone can verify it will work or not. I was thinking of buying RED ONE SSD MODULE but $1500 is really not a fare price. If 128 CF works i will go that way.
 
Omkar Gauchan said:
Hey Nils
Do you know if anyone can verify it will work or not. I was thinking of buying RED ONE SSD MODULE but $1500 is really not a fare price. If 128 CF works i will go that way.
Click to expand...

You misunderstand, they don't work.
We are talking about the possibility of support being added for them but using compact flash cards has always been more limited than working with SSD's.

In fact most off the shelf CF cards are limited to 2k in redcode28 at 25fps.

So I can definitely verify that they will NOT work!

Freya
 
Wish List for future Red One Support:

1) 25fps 2k @ RC42 works out at only 7mb/s!!! :yesnod: Can this mode be added for all compact flash cards?
Maybe this could even be snuck into the next build seeing as you have to update that section for the 48gb SSD's anyway? What you say Red people? Like I say, I think this would be totally appropriate in a world where the Black Magic Camera can shoot 2.5k on off the shelf media. Would love to see this in Build 32! It shouldn't be too difficult an update, just a matter of lifting the restriction from redcode28 to redcode42.

2) Support for the new compact flash VPG-20 standard! Looks like a great standard! This is probably more work, but maybe sometime in the future when things are a bit less crazy busy?

3) Would it be possible to support lower compression modes on the RedMags? SSD's are really fast so perhaps it would be possible to have a Redcode48 mode or something? I suspect those SSD's are almost dawldling on the RedOne because the existing modes are designed more around the thought of spinning media. Again, one for the future but theres potential there I think, and theres going to be a lot of people with SSD's given that most of the BT MX's came with a side SSD module...

I guess this 48gb SSD thing has got us all thinking about media! :)

Freya
 
BT R1 now upgraded to Build 32. Even though this was released a while ago, just wanted to say thanks for continued support. :emote_hippie:
 
I don't where did you get Bulid 32, i am still been waiting for a long time.
Dustin Hoye said:
BT R1 now upgraded to Build 32. Even though this was released a while ago, just wanted to say thanks for continued support. :emote_hippie:
Click to expand...
 
Freya said:
Wish List for future Red One Support:

1) 25fps 2k @ RC42 works out at only 7mb/s!!! :yesnod: Can this mode be added for all compact flash cards?
Maybe this could even be snuck into the next build seeing as you have to update that section for the 48gb SSD's anyway? What you say Red people? Like I say, I think this would be totally appropriate in a world where the Black Magic Camera can shoot 2.5k on off the shelf media. Would love to see this in Build 32! It shouldn't be too difficult an update, just a matter of lifting the restriction from redcode28 to redcode42.

2) Support for the new compact flash VPG-20 standard! Looks like a great standard! This is probably more work, but maybe sometime in the future when things are a bit less crazy busy?

3) Would it be possible to support lower compression modes on the RedMags? SSD's are really fast so perhaps it would be possible to have a Redcode48 mode or something? I suspect those SSD's are almost dawldling on the RedOne because the existing modes are designed more around the thought of spinning media. Again, one for the future but theres potential there I think, and theres going to be a lot of people with SSD's given that most of the BT MX's came with a side SSD module...

I guess this 48gb SSD thing has got us all thinking about media! :)

Freya
Click to expand...
Be careful not to be confusing Mb/s (=Mbits/s) and MB/s (=MBytes/s). 1 MByte = 8 Mbits.
25fps 2K @RC42 is 7 MBytes/s, not 7 Mbits. So it is actually 56 Mbits/s.

The VPG-20 standard you describe should be enough for 3K 16/9 at RC28 (which is around 18 MB/s) but not for more.
 
Hiya Omkar,
I got it from the very first post in this thread. Hyper link .zip with update and install instructions.
Best!
Dustin
 
Careful guys this is a beta build 32 link in the first thread. The official build has not been released yet. The beta can be installed and used, but is not recommended for use on client shoots as it is not a bullet proof stable firmware. Not worth the risk.
 
Nils Ruinet said:
Be careful not to be confusing Mb/s (=Mbits/s) and MB/s (=MBytes/s). 1 MByte = 8 Mbits.
25fps 2K @RC42 is 7 MBytes/s, not 7 Mbits. So it is actually 56 Mbits/s.

The VPG-20 standard you describe should be enough for 3K 16/9 at RC28 (which is around 18 MB/s) but not for more.
Click to expand...

Ugh! I forgot about this! Thanks for the heads up. I'll check my numbers again and see if any bits vs bytes slipped in there!
Think it's daft to make case sensitive terminology like that...it's really going to add to the confusion!

Freya
 
Nils Ruinet said:
Be careful not to be confusing Mb/s (=Mbits/s) and MB/s (=MBytes/s). 1 MByte = 8 Mbits.
25fps 2K @RC42 is 7 MBytes/s, not 7 Mbits. So it is actually 56 Mbits/s.

The VPG-20 standard you describe should be enough for 3K 16/9 at RC28 (which is around 18 MB/s) but not for more.
Click to expand...

According to the Red Recording time calculator 4K @ RC28 = 19 MB/sec, so in theory should work too? Maybe that's sailing too close to the wind tho and only quad HD would def work. Not sure?

Also 2k 96fsp @ RC28 = 19 MB/sec too. I'm being careful to cut and paste from the calculator now so I don't mess up my case! ;)

Freya
 
Adam Johnson said:
Careful guys this is a beta build 32 link in the first thread. The official build has not been released yet. The beta can be installed and used, but is not recommended for use on client shoots as it is not a bullet proof stable firmware. Not worth the risk.
Click to expand...
I have used this particular build on several real gigs and it has been fine. A couple of bugs, but no show stoppers. Just shot a full day of interviews at 4KHD @ RC42 to SSD and RED RAID Drives. Used Red Gamma 3. Just watch out for the bug switching between Raw and RG3.
I would still like a release build with support for the 48GB cards at some point but I do feel confident shooting with this beta in the meantime.
 
Steve Sherrick said:
I have used this particular build on several real gigs and it has been fine. A couple of bugs, but no show stoppers. Just shot a full day of interviews at 4KHD @ RC42 to SSD and RED RAID Drives. Used Red Gamma 3. Just watch out for the bug switching between Raw and RG3.
I would still like a release build with support for the 48GB cards at some point but I do feel confident shooting with this beta in the meantime.
Click to expand...
Steve is totally correct
 
Thanks Steve and Neale for clarifying- Good to know it has been, overall, good experiences with it, Steve for you, so far. I will keep an eye on it for sure. Somehow, I just stared right past the 'Beta' tag.. (Me: "Donuts?..Oh, nuclear donuts..hmmm.. donuts!") Yep, did see the RC3>RAW>Clr bug as I was re-assigning my user keys after install.
 
Yap, thats what i am talking abt. The Beta been released a while ago but still no RELEASE ver. Seems they just abandoned us.
Dustin Hoye said:
Thanks Steve and Neale for clarifying- Good to know it has been, overall, good experiences with it, Steve for you, so far. I will keep an eye on it for sure. Somehow, I just stared right past the 'Beta' tag.. (Me: "Donuts?..Oh, nuclear donuts..hmmm.. donuts!") Yep, did see the RC3>RAW>Clr bug as I was re-assigning my user keys after install.
Click to expand...
 
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