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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red one and wildlife cinematography thread?

The one that I have won't work on very rugged terrain, I'm well aware of that, but the one I'm imagining will. Of course it won't work over a boulder field or a climb with big steps, but I'm hoping it will be able to cover about 70% of the hiking trails in my backyard. We'll see.

I live in a very scenic neighborhood, lots of wildlife cruise through here, including mountain lions and bears. A month ago, the DOW officer came through our alley with a rifle while I was jumping on my trampoline with my daughter and told me to take my dog and daughter inside, because of a mountain lion sighting in the next block...this isn't that unusual for my neighborhood, so an easy way to haul the maximum gear locally is essential.

I have a Sigma 300-800mm in a Canon mount and am hoping that it will work with the Birger, which is on order....the lens is an outstanding bit of optics, as nice as any Canon L glass, and I have a lot of that as well.
 
Meryem Ersoz said:
I have a Sigma 300-800mm in a Canon mount and am hoping that it will work with the Birger, which is on order....the lens is an outstanding bit of optics, as nice as any Canon L glass, and I have a lot of that as well.
Click to expand...

it should work, hopefully... Great information, quite consistent with what I already have : some sigma lenses stand aside with the best canon/nikon stuff...while retaining an iris ring. Hope you post some still with that lens as soon as you get your birger mount !
 
Has anyone had any issues with the fan noise scaring away timid wildlife subjects? I have a potential shoot with some rather camera shy birds and I think the fan on my Red may be an issue. I would be working in a hide in a hot and humid location so there would be no option to turn the fans down. Unfortunately, it's not really long lens stuff so I fear that the camera noise might be a problem. I'd really appreciate any feedback if someone has had their Red in this type of situation. Otherwise it looks like I'm going to have to play safe and hire in a Varicam. Thanks in advance. Max
 
Maximus said:
Has anyone had any issues with the fan noise scaring away timid wildlife subjects?
Click to expand...

Perhaps not scaring, but yes, recently I witnessed an amazing incidence. I was in a hide filming golden eye ducks in mating time. The hide itself is bit like a tiny cottage. The camera was off as I had a lot of material when a flock of birds suddenly swam in the front of the hide.

The male ducks make a sound which is kind of hiss, as the birds were in front of me I pressed the buttom to switch the camera on. When the camera boots up, the fan runs at maximum speed for a moment. When the fan started to spin, simultaneously I realized the basic frequency component of the fan is very close to that of the hiss of the male duck. And then, for my big surprise, the female golden eye duck, which was right in front of me, suddenly jumped from water and flew straight to the window of the hide, hit it, and landed then back on water.

Thereafter, whenever the camera started to boot up (6 or 7 times) and the fan switched on, the female duck flew even from 30 meters away to the hide to check what is there in the bird-house attached to the hide.

It's a pity booting up takes such a long time. Othwerise I would have got unique footages of a golden eye duck flying straight towards the camera!
 
Maximus said:
Has anyone had any issues with the fan noise scaring away timid wildlife subjects? Max
Click to expand...

I woke up this morning with that very question in my mind... I remember working on bonelli's eagles and eagle-owls at very short distance (4 meters) with a very noisy old betacam stuff, or being unable to refrain from coughing... Both are supposed to be very shy birds, especially at nest or when feeding on a caught. They would stare at the hide for a short while, but wouldn't really care, as if their attention had been raised, period. I doubt fans would be a real issue. In general, it seems that birds are very sensitive to sudden noises, not really to continuous ones, I guess, especially if they don't "see" anything particular. I tend to think otherwise with mammals, but apparently, what came across Isaac's plans about foxes was boot-up time, not noise... However, no way you can really predict what frequencies your subject will really hear, and what intraspecific behavior you may trigger (beware of golden eyes duck !!).

BTW, does the red one bear a silencing device around it without overheating ?
 
Just my opinions...

the fan at initial start up is quite loud- and has startled wildlife for me, but once the camera has booted, it is reasonable - I live where it is "colder than warmer" so the fan doesn't run all that high that often.

The start up is my main whine. I've missed more than a few greats, elk chasing coyotes, wolves chasing elk, the works...so it goes, I can't complain I knew it when I purchased - I just hope they come to a sleep button soon. 1-2 minutes can be an eternity. enuff whine...

That said, I've encountered a couple other issues. I try to start the camera and then move into position while it is starting (then wait another minute for the camera to be ready..) My camera doesn't seem to like to be moved while it is booting...this has happened 5-6 times. It seems that if I move the camera while it is just booting up, it remains in "boot" mode, with the fan on high speed, and the RED "initializing" screen never comes about. the only solution I've found is to kill the power, and repower it. I don't know if this is unique to my camera, or if the problem is really in moving the camera while booting, but it has never happened to me when I've booted the camera while the camera is still, and has happened most times I can remember that I've booted it on the run!

I've had some 4K 16x9 codec errors at real unfortunate times (..hope they are no longer in Build 16) and some Monitor flicker if I boot up the camera without the monitor cable attached...but all and all if figure this is the price for riding the bleeding edge. I've shed a few tears over missed shots because of slow boot-up and codec errors, was ready to chuck the camera into the river once or twice when frustrated :), but I think it is the best camera for my $$, the image is great from what I can tell, and I keep believing the "functions" for wildlife work (Sleep mode) will be coming along shortly.

I'm reasonably impressed with the weight. I can get around with a 800 or a 150-600 and tripod pretty well solo, seems better than the 40x + HD Cam set up. I've got my handle/cradle pretty stripped, it works. If I could carry less batteries I'd smile more and grunt less...

Bear in mind, I'm not the best cameraman, shooter, or filmmaker. But I do carry the camera into some pretty remote places without a film crew. For me its about keeping the camera simple and being able to shoot quickly - the latter isn't happening yet...

Again, just my thoughts, you'll get better info from those who've made a life of it...
 
isaacbabcock said:
That said, I've encountered a couple other issues. I try to start the camera and then move into position while it is starting (then wait another minute for the camera to be ready..) My camera doesn't seem to like to be moved while it is booting...this has happened 5-6 times. It seems that if I move the camera while it is just booting up, it remains in "boot" mode, with the fan on high speed, and the RED "initializing" screen never comes about. the only solution I've found is to kill the power, and repower it. I don't know if this is unique to my camera, or if the problem is really in moving the camera while booting, but it has never happened to me when I've booted the camera while the camera is still, and has happened most times I can remember that I've booted it on the run!
Click to expand...

I've had this false boot problem. But I'm not sure it has much to do with movement. As it's happened on a tripod, and not happened while handholding.

The likely cause of this boot issue is one of the drivers that are controlling external devices: such as a Red drive, a CF card, or an EVF or LCD. If one of these drivers is hanging then the whole system might hang as it is initializing.

It could also be that minor power fluctuations, from a weak battery mount connection are at play... but this doesn't seem likely to me.

Try disconnecting, peripherals from your Red before you boot... in particular a Red drive... then reconnecting it when it's done. This may prevent this hanging on boot.
.
These are all just ideas.

By the way, congrats on the wedding. Glad to here you're out their shooting with the Red.

IBloom
 
isaacbabcock said:
I'm reasonably impressed with the weight. I can get around with a 800 or a 150-600 and tripod pretty well solo, seems better than the 40x + HD Cam set up. I've got my handle/cradle pretty stripped, it works. If I could carry less batteries I'd smile more and grunt less...
Click to expand...

Hi Isaac,
I am very interested to hear you have a good setup with the red and an 800 or 150-600mm. Ive been thinking about my options a lot, should i go for a canon/sigma 150-600/300-800 for my red or use a 40x with the b4 (but then its only 2k right?) Ive always thought that yes its great you can get the wide and the mammoth close up with the 40x but in a lot of cases you dont need to go THAT wide as your subject will be so far away you wouldnt see it in the wide, i recently saw this situation in BBC's Wild China. The cut from extreme wide in beautiful landscape where you didnt really see the animal, to the extreme closeup on the long end. What the 40x are nice for are the zooms from that extreme close up to super wide - but for regular sequence work you dont really need it?

So my question is (as i never used this lens) is the 150mm on the 150-600mm wide enough to get a wide in most cases? or just a mid.
Im all for using and investing in stills lenses for my red and hiring hd zooms as and when necessary - silly prices anyway - little me cant afford a 40x whaha
 
When you guys go out solo, how are you carrying the tripod? I can my Red kit to fit in the Tamrac backpack just fine, but that leaves me holding the tripod in my hand. I can't imagine trying to hike while carrying an O'Connor 1030HDS. Though I suppose that's the only option if I'm alone.
 
Mizael said:
Hi Isaac,
I am very interested to hear you have a good setup with the red and an 800 or 150-600mm. Ive been thinking about my options a lot, should i go for a canon/sigma 150-600/300-800 for my red or use a 40x with the b4 (but then its only 2k right?) Ive always thought that yes its great you can get the wide and the mammoth close up with the 40x but in a lot of cases you dont need to go THAT wide as your subject will be so far away you wouldnt see it in the wide, i recently saw this situation in BBC's Wild China. The cut from extreme wide in beautiful landscape where you didnt really see the animal, to the extreme closeup on the long end. What the 40x are nice for are the zooms from that extreme close up to super wide - but for regular sequence work you dont really need it?

So my question is (as i never used this lens) is the 150mm on the 150-600mm wide enough to get a wide in most cases? or just a mid.
Im all for using and investing in stills lenses for my red and hiring hd zooms as and when necessary - silly prices anyway - little me cant afford a 40x whaha
Click to expand...

Here's some input on your questions:

We have the Funinon 42x9.7 and 22x7.3 HD EFP zooms. They're both great lenses. If the shooting we're doing can be limited to 2k and we need a very high frame rate, then yes we use them and yes, the footage is excellent. I've owned a RED B4 adaptor since last September.

The above said, a large portion of the wildlife and adventure travel footage we've been shooting has called for 4k and 3k resolutions, so the B4 lenses can't be used. My solutions for long lens 4k and 3k footage have been my Canon FD 150-600 f5.5L zoom and my RED 300mm tele, with a Century 2x extender at times.

My 150-600 is stock, except for a Century PL mount conversion (mount only). It was made in 1989 and the glass is excellent. My lens is well-maintained and free from the wear and tear you may find in lenses that old. It weighs 9 pounds, as opposed to the much heavier Sigma 300-800 (16 pounds).

With the 150-600 installed on RED, and the rest of the camera all set up, the rig weight is around 30 pounds. I regularly hike into remote areas with the rigged camera body in one hand, the 150-600 in my Tamrac 5258 backpack, and my tripod in my other hand.

150mm isn't that wide, so I usually also take along my RED 18-50 zoom for the wider scenic shots. BTW, the RED 300 is a very crisp lens and holds up very well to use with a 2x extender. Its is an excellent wildlife lens if you don't need zoom capability. When I need long lens zoom capability and need to cover 4k and 3k, my choice is the 150-600. If zooming isn't needed I quite often use the RED 300.

If you're not planning on renting your RED kit out, then by all means you can go the still lens route.

I've shot extensive amounts of wildlife with RED ONE since last August, in places like the Rocky Mountains, Hawaii, the U.S. West Coast, and Alaska. The first photo below is me in an extremely remote area of Alaska a few weeks ago shooting with my 150-600. The rest of the setup includes: RED EVF, ET EVF mount with sliding adjustment, RED Drive, ET ARRI plate (15mm), 15mm rods, ET ARRI V plate, Miller Arrow 55 tripod. The other photo is a closer look at the same rig in action on one of my California coast shoots.

I highly recommend the ET accessories. They're strong and well designed.

The 150-600 is hard to find and getting more expensive by the week. It is good glass and covers 4k and naturally 3k on RED ONE.

Hope this info helps you...
 
JoshBertrand said:
When you guys go out solo, how are you carrying the tripod? I can my Red kit to fit in the Tamrac backpack just fine, but that leaves me holding the tripod in my hand. I can't imagine trying to hike while carrying an O'Connor 1030HDS. Though I suppose that's the only option if I'm alone.
Click to expand...

I regularly hike alone long distances with my Tamrac back stuffed with lenses and accessories, the rigged but lens-less camera body in another hand, and my Miller Arrow 55 tripod in a soft case with the should strap over my shoulder. There are a number of different strap systems you can find to strap up your tripod and shoulder-carry it.

I can't over-emphasize the role of physical fitness for this type of hiking in and shooting. I'm 60 years old, but I workout five or six days a week and eat carefully - thus I'm still able to get those hyper-mobile, challenging, single person into the wilderness shots. You can too - if you stay in shape. Otherwise, take an assistant with you to share the load.
 
Gibby, or anyone else.

Could you please tell me how you support the heavy lences? Is there some kind of universal support for different lences (I will probably go with different still lences, probably Canon and Sigma)? How much weight may a solution with rods carry? If the lence make the rigged camera front heavy, how do you conect and find the balance at a tripod, using the rods-solution?

I have no experience with the use of rods so please explain this to a "dummie".
And I appologice my poor english...I am norwegian you know...

Sincerely
Are Pilskog
 
are said:
Gibby, or anyone else.

Could you please tell me how you support the heavy lences? Is there some kind of universal support for different lences (I will probably go with different still lences, probably Canon and Sigma)? How much weight may a solution with rods carry? If the lence make the rigged camera front heavy, how do you conect and find the balance at a tripod, using the rods-solution?

I have no experience with the use of rods so please explain this to a "dummie".
And I appologice my poor english...I am norwegian you know...

Sincerely
Are Pilskog
Click to expand...

Your English is much better than my Norwegian! My grandmother emigrated form Norway to the USA in 1875. A large part of my ancestry is Norwegian and Swedish.

I use both 15mm and 19mm rods at times. I have both of the ET ARRI base plates (15mm and 19mm). The little sliding bracket you see on the new picture I just added to my previous post shows the bracket under the lens. A small screw on that bracket goes into the bottom of the lens and secures the mount. Thos are 15mm rods in the picture. I use them to keep the weight of the rig down. They're plenty strong for that. The Canon 150-600 zoom pictured weighs nine pounds.

The Sigma 300-800 weighs 16 pounds, so again, no problem supporting it with either 15mm or 19mm rods.

Recently in Hawaii on a production, I used an Optimo 24-290 zoom, which weighs 24 pounds, on 19mm rods and again no problem.

On your questions about balance:

The Element Technica ARRI base plate you see in the pictures, with the rods on the side guides, is made to slide along the ET ARRI V plate I have it mounted on. That allows me to slide the rig forward or backward until balance is achieved. The Miller base plate under the AEER V plate also has the ability to slide forward and backward, so I can also use that to balance the rig on the head.

The Canon 150-600 lens weighs 9 pounds, The RED Cradle on the top back of the camera, which holds the RED Drive and RED battery has a weight of roughly 5 pounds. Sliding the rig on the V plate easily balances the rig on the head, then just lock it down.

Hope this info helps you...
 
Actually, one more question (and there might be more questions later:=).
Where do you get the sliding bracket for the lence? Is that a universal bracket that fits at different lences or does it just fit on your Canon 150-600 lence?

Are Pilskog
 
are said:
Actually, one more question (and there might be more questions later:=).
Where do you get the sliding bracket for the lence? Is that a universal bracket that fits at different lences or does it just fit on your Canon 150-600 lence?

Are Pilskog
Click to expand...

If you're using 19mm rods the RED Universal Mount will slide onto them. It has a hole in the center where you can screw through a long bolt to reach the bottom of the lens collar or in the case of the 150-600 the bottom of the lens casing. With the RED Universal Mount there is about a 3cm gap between the top of the mount and the bottom of a lens collar - thus the need for a longer screw. I would imagine when RED can get around to it they will design a small plate to fill that gap.

I don't know who made the sliding bracket pictured in use with my 150-600. The manufacturer is not mentioned on the part, and I bought it used from someone else. There are a number of rail systems and sliding brackets that will work with RED though.

The screw hole diameter on the bottom of lens collars is pretty much universal.

Hope this helps...
 
Gibby said:
Here's some input on your questions:

We have the Funinon 42x9.7 and 22x7.3 HD EFP zooms. They're both great lenses. If the shooting we're doing can be limited to 2k and we need a very high frame rate, then yes we use them and yes, the footage is excellent. I've owned a RED B4 adaptor since last September.

The above said, a large portion of the wildlife and adventure travel footage we've been shooting has called for 4k and 3k resolutions, so the B4 lenses can't be used. My solutions for long lens 4k and 3k footage have been my Canon FD 150-600 f5.5L zoom and my RED 300mm tele, with a Century 2x extender at times.

My 150-600 is stock, except for a Century PL mount conversion (mount only). It was made in 1989 and the glass is excellent. My lens is well-maintained and free from the wear and tear you may find in lenses that old. It weighs 9 pounds, as opposed to the much heavier Sigma 300-800 (16 pounds).

With the 150-600 installed on RED, and the rest of the camera all set up, the rig weight is around 30 pounds. I regularly hike into remote areas with the rigged camera body in one hand, the 150-600 in my Tamrac 5258 backpack, and my tripod in my other hand.

150mm isn't that wide, so I usually also take along my RED 18-50 zoom for the wider scenic shots. BTW, the RED 300 is a very crisp lens and holds up very well to use with a 2x extender. Its is an excellent wildlife lens if you don't need zoom capability. When I need long lens zoom capability and need to cover 4k and 3k, my choice is the 150-600. If zooming isn't needed I quite often use the RED 300.

If you're not planning on renting your RED kit out, then by all means you can go the still lens route.

I've shot extensive amounts of wildlife with RED ONE since last August, in places like the Rocky Mountains, Hawaii, the U.S. West Coast, and Alaska. The first photo below is me in an extremely remote area of Alaska a few weeks ago shooting with my 150-600. The rest of the setup includes: RED EVF, ET EVF mount with sliding adjustment, RED Drive, ET ARRI plate (15mm), 15mm rods, ET ARRI V plate, Miller Arrow 55 tripod. The other photo is a closer look at the same rig in action on one of my California coast shoots.

I highly recommend the ET accessories. They're strong and well designed.

The 150-600 is hard to find and getting more expensive by the week. It is good glass and covers 4k and naturally 3k on RED ONE.

Hope this info helps you...
Click to expand...

Yeah definitely helps, thanks for the info.
Nice library you got going - i doesnt say which lens you used on the shots though - would you mind pointing out some shots that you took with the 150-600mm and which with HD zooms?
would be good to see their performance - I understand that they are webclips and not their native resolution.

I dont really intend to rent out my red - except with me included ofcourse so going the stills lens route is a bit of a no brainer
What about using the 150-600mm with the FD mount adaptor that is aparantly available for the Red?


16 pounds is pretty heavy for the Sigma 300-800mm, but this lens would be good for hide work?

Nice pics of your rig BTW, puts it into perspective what works for you, thanks
 
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