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RED must take Europe!

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A new level of warfare - Defending our investments

It is time to address this important issue. All what you will read now does not apply to the UK.
I have been one of the very early adaptors of RED in Europe (2007). Now, dealing with RED in Hollywood is quite easy, you are there; onsite, and many directors, post production houses and producers support you. Jim and Jarred have build the perfect weapon, and gave you all the ammunition you required. Thousands of cameras just in LA.

Here in Europe the wind blows from a different side. Wherever we go we get “shot on” with Alexa. In 2008 we presented the RED during the film festival in Cannes. We rented the most expensive beach directly in front of the Carlton Hotel to present RED. Many came, Film school directors, producers, directors. They ate our food and than they told us that it will take 10 years before this will happen, and we should not loose our time, Arri would eat us alive.

Now, we are not RED but a “special and very hardheaded entrepreneurial elite” we have not talked a lot about our plans and prepared silently. Now we want to break up the European “omerta” around Arri (Ask Ketch, he can tell you what “omerta” means). Now Europe has two huge industries that need RED, on one side, Advertising, TV and Publishing and on the other side the movie industry. The total turnover is far over 300 Billion US$ for both industries. We talk about Art directors (and there are thousands of them), Filmmakers, Mediagroups and many others. And most of them just go Arri, mostly because they are scared "from the new".

RED in Europe is still perceived as something exotic as there are just a bunch of loosely organized guerilla fighters (excellent ones) over here. The rental houses have many RED’s but they just don’t work enough as most don't master the workflows. Now some people from the other side of the ocean have relocated in Europe to join the battle, some came here to shoot some spectacular movies and some others just explore the terrain. We recently met some of these "young explorers", traveling from the US to Italy and we immediately saw the next generation of PRO’s. Let’s infect the young Europeans, too, the weapon is ready – the new Scarlet, and once they are armed they will need support.

So what battle are we talking about!

Mission 1: Eradicate 35mm film and Arri wherever possible in Europe.
Mission 2: Establish 2 or 3 permanent “RED only” studios in continental Europe.
Mission 3: Incubate “Block movie theaters” based on RED projectors with fully digital distribution. (A group in Italy is planning some thousands of them – they must be RED, not something else)
Mission 4: Build a fully IT based RED only footage and content related service and distribution network.

In a few words, We have to deploy RED, Redcode and its workflow wherever possible to make Arri’s life harder. We have to organize regular events to train Art directors and directors at large. Europe is the home of Arri, its here where the battle has to be won, the US belongs already to Jim, but Arri has an incredibly strong network here and is starting to fight back. So let us tear them down, before it is to late. I am not RED, but I am fully invested in RED, so I want to see Jim and Jarred and all the crew champions.

All comments are welcome!

Some data: http://www.eib.org/attachments/pj/pjaudio_en.pdf
 
Hello,

I don't like the style of your post... but you are right, RED is like a bad word here in Europe and specially in France. Look at the latest Cahier du Cinéma, no one speaks right about RED and often refer to RED as the RED ONE with build 12, 3 years ago. Epic doesn't exist for them. Aaton and Arri are well established. "Old Europe" loves tradition and see new comer like a teenager plot.

True that the "army" way of doing marketing is not well seen here.

Hope things will change.

I'm very happy to work with RED tools. Hope Arri and Aaton will walk the talk very soon!

Pat
 
A new level of warfare - Defending our investments

It is time to address this important issue. All what you will read now does not apply to the UK.
I have been one of the very early adaptors of RED in Europe (2007). Now, dealing with RED in Hollywood is quite easy, you are there; onsite, and many directors, post production houses and producers support you. Jim and Jarred have build the perfect weapon, and gave you all the ammunition you required. Thousands of cameras just in LA.

Here in Europe the wind blows from a different side. Wherever we go we get “shot on” with Alexa. In 2008 we presented the RED during the film festival in Cannes. We rented the most expensive beach directly in front of the Carlton Hotel to present RED. Many came, Film school directors, producers, directors. They ate our food and than they told us that it will take 10 years before this will happen, and we should not loose our time, Arri would eat us alive.

Now, we are not RED but a “special and very hardheaded entrepreneurial elite” we have not talked a lot about our plans and prepared silently. Now we want to break up the European “omerta” around Arri (Ask Ketch, he can tell you what “omerta” means). Now Europe has two huge industries that need RED, on one side, Advertising, TV and Publishing and on the other side the movie industry. The total turnover is far over 300 Billion US$ for both industries. We talk about Art directors (and there are thousands of them), Filmmakers, Mediagroups and many others. And most of them just go Arri, mostly because they are scared "from the new".

RED in Europe is still perceived as something exotic as there are just a bunch of loosely organized guerilla fighters (excellent ones) over here. The rental houses have many RED’s but they just don’t work enough as most don't master the workflows. Now some people from the other side of the ocean have relocated in Europe to join the battle, some came here to shoot some spectacular movies and some others just explore the terrain. We recently met some of these "young explorers", traveling from the US to Italy and we immediately saw the next generation of PRO’s. Let’s infect the young Europeans, too, the weapon is ready – the new Scarlet, and once they are armed they will need support.

So what battle are we talking about!

Mission 1: Eradicate 35mm film and Arri wherever possible in Europe.
Mission 2: Establish 2 or 3 permanent “RED only” studios in continental Europe.
Mission 3: Incubate “Block movie theaters” based on RED projectors with fully digital distribution. (A group in Italy is planning some thousands of them – they must be RED, not something else)
Mission 4: Build a fully IT based RED only footage and content related service and distribution network.

In a few words, We have to deploy RED, Redcode and its workflow wherever possible to make Arri’s life harder. We have to organize regular events to train Art directors and directors at large. Europe is the home of Arri, its here where the battle has to be won, the US belongs already to Jim, but Arri has an incredibly strong network here and is starting to fight back. So let us tear them down, before it is to late. I am not RED, but I am fully invested in RED, so I want to see Jim and Jarred and all the crew champions.

All comments are welcome!

Some data: http://www.eib.org/attachments/pj/pjaudio_en.pdf

What an absolute load of b______s! Red is doing just fine by word of mouth. It does not get ANY BIGGER than Mr Jackson shooting 'The Hobbit'. You need to re-look at history. What you are suggesting is a whole mix of social orientation which history suggests we don't need on this thread.

What planet are you on?
 
Define "Europe" - RED is doing well in various parts of Europe, not all, but certainly you seem to be painting a picture of no-tolerance for RED over here which just isn't true...
 
Sorry I could have edited but I won't. The last thing RED needs is some 'slick Canon campaign'. Word of mouth and 'proof is in the pudding' speaks volumes over orchestrated media.

Trust all that manufacture and build Epic/Scarlet, and those on RedUser. RED on features is number 1 already.
 
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What an absolute load of b______s! Red is doing just fine by word of mouth. It does not get ANY BIGGER than Mr Jackson shooting 'The Hobbit'. You need to re-look at history. What you are suggesting is a whole mix of social orientation which history suggests we don't need on this thread.

What planet are you on?
At least read my post - London is in the UK correct. "All what you will read now does not apply to the UK." Be polite: UK is not continental Europe, it is another planet.
 
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Define "Europe" - RED is doing well in various parts of Europe, not all, but certainly you seem to be painting a picture of no-tolerance for RED over here which just isn't true...

I know very well that Europe is not all the same. Some countries like Switzerland and Germany and Northern Europe are doing quite well. But if you take Italy, still the largest movie distributer and producer in Europe, RED could do much more. There are excellent people around in Genova, in Milan in Rome, but 99% of the time you have to start endless discussions why RED and not Arri. Word of mouth is not enough, I believe.
 
I think you all are missing the SPIRIT of his post by "pixel peeping" his words and taking(quoting) them out of context. That's what the SUN does.

Don't like his metaphors, really? really? Well RED calls their EVF a Bomb. their camera mount an ASSAULT Plate, and uses NATO (gun mounting hardware) get over it. RED has been waging a war of sorts, ask Jim (who I bet LOVES this post)

FACT: Arri Alexa is DOMINATING europe for no other reason than tradition and resistance to change. SAME AS HOLLYWOOD. it requires a BATTLE with the old guard.

I love your post and your energy - REDUCATING clients the world over is our responsibility as Red owners imho... and this is a fantastic call to arms
 
At least read my post - London is in the UK correct. "All what you will read now does not apply to the UK." Be polite: UK is not continental Europe, it is another planet.

You are missing something here. Let me just tell you as I am based in London just to make this clear. A few months ago Marks & Spencer's shot a film called Ruby and someone(may be someone can provide a link). The billboards that were run were stills from the film.

The news of this campaign ran like wildfire through the industry.

Trust me, RED need no help from your 'doctrinal advice' to promote RED in London. As I said before I believe a covert word of mouth roadmap is far more effective and useful.
 
Welcome frederick at the RED forum ... you won't find friends here by writing this kind of post, hehe.
Flaming tournament is online since the very first start of this forum and it grew up since the Scarlet ... Anyway
Even if I'm not really a fan of your post I can understand what you mean. You are a real fan it's a fact ! hehe

Yes it's right that There are people fighting hard to force producer and director using RED cameras and the PR work of Arri is incredible in Europe. What I mean is they are everywhere...
I'm talking of what I know, I'm talking about France... yes France is not the center of the world but it's a country which is spending biggest amount of money in the film industry in Europe and even in the US Blockbusters (Transporter, Taken (Europa Corp), True Lies, Terminator 2 (Studio Canal)...) - So I think it can be important to know some stuff coming from here...

The good news is that well known director are changing their mind and use the EPIC instead of Arri and PANAVISION and that's a real change. Chatillez, Scarax and above all AUDIARD who is one of the most famous and talented director in France is using the RED EPIC.
But trust me 85% of DP hates RED. They say it's not a camera it's a tricked camera... And when you ask them what do you prefer they'd rather choose a camera they have even not seen the F65 ...

and we are here... small group of fans, director, DP, OC and Teachers who are trying to impose the RED in bigger production explaining why it's better and what's the RED philosophy... We are not James Cameron or Peter Jackson, only regular person trying to make the things changes without asking any reward from anyone... Just for the love of the cinema and it's our way to thank RED for having change the cinema industry... Look at the price change from Arri even from Sony and the F65

RED does not need help... right but I'm happy to help and talked to many important people such CST, AFC, .... (same as AMerican ASC in the US) trying to explain why RED is better. They are just used to work with certain type of tools and they don't want to change for new comers ... habits are hard to change what is more for the old french generation...
 
this thead is useless in my opinion… the best "lobbying" would probably be to just make REDucation more accessible (more dates, maybe a REDucation Tour and not only at Pinewood) and to generally rise the visibility here in Europe -> like doing roadshows and stuff. I think this is actually in the works (if I recall the RED World-Tour thread - which sadly has been closed to due useless discussions)…

Let the products and the results speak for itself - this of course will only work if people are really happy with it; and as long as some of the people responsible for the products don't grasp the concept, the workflow and/or the handling for the tools they work with (my opinion; RED still IS heavy on the post- and handling side, compared with other systems - you need to know what you do before you start shooting… this of course is true for every camera system but it is even more true for shooting 4-5k [just think of focus pulling]). Many people still believe 4-5k will "automatically" get them "cinema-pictures" - and end up with bad results because of bad workflows or people not familiar with the camera. That's my opinion…

This should be solved with (red)EDUCATION and not with (flame)WAR :)
 
Welcome frederick at the RED forum ... you won't find friends here by writing this post. Flaming tournament is online since the beginning ...Anyway
Even if I'm not really a fan of your post I can understand what you mean.

You are right that

They are people fighting hard to force production using RED and the work of Arri is incredible in Europe. I mean they are everywhere...
I'm talking of what I know, I'm talking about France... The good news is that Big director are changing and using the EPIC instead of Arri and PANAVISION and that's a real change. Chatillez, Scarax and above all AUDIARD who is one of the most famous and talented director in France is using the RED EPIC.
But trust me 85% of DP hates RED. They say it's not a camera it's a tricked camera... And when you ask them what do you prefer they'd rather choose a camera they have even not seen the F65 ...

and we are here... small group of fans, director, DP, OC and Teachers who are trying to impose the RED in bigger production explaining why it's better and what's the RED philosophy... We are not James Cameron or Peter Jackson, only regular person trying to make the things changes without asking any reward from anyone... Just for the love of the cinema

Let's not stress ourselves out here. Forget going on some marketing campaign to promote RED. Stand back, let them all believe the crap that they want to. As I said before lets just let the footage/film speak for itself and then just maybe, just maybe the backorder queue might just be slightly less for my Epic Stage 4. Can I just say please will everyone shut up about the brilliance of Epic!
 
Id relax a bit. Things are hotting up now Epic is around.

Id like to think we win work because we are good at what we do have have the best tools the camera for which are Red. I don't feel the need to go to war over it.
 
Sorry I could have edited but I won't. The last thing RED needs is some 'slick Canon campaign'. Word of mouth and 'proof is in the pudding' speaks volumes over orchestrated media.

Trust all that manufacture and build Epic/Scarlet, and those on RedUser. RED on features is number 1 already.

Sorry to contradict you: http://www.anica.it/online/news/prod_italiana_2010.pdf This is the catalogue of 146 Italian feature films produced in 2010. Guess how many have been produced on RED. As to my understanding NONE. If somebody could tell exactly I would appreciate. I found a post saying that this is the first feature film shot on RED in Italy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY9KaYWJk1M - I hope I am wrong and at least 50 to 60 have been shot on RED.
 
I'm not sure why I'm replying to such an obviously, hmm, can't find a non-offensive word, I'll try strange, post.

Red is well established all over Europe, I shot Wallander in Sweden on Red in 2008, Camalot in Amsterdam has a shed load of them, Blixt in Copenhagen has a bunch that are working all the time, I could go on.

It seems that you're corellating a problem in Italy to the whole of Europe, it just doesn't fly.
 
Sorry to contradict you: http://www.anica.it/online/news/prod_italiana_2010.pdf This is the catalogue of 146 Italian feature films produced in 2010. Guess how many have been produced on RED. As to my understanding NONE. If somebody could tell exactly I would appreciate. I found a post saying that this is the first feature film shot on RED in Italy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY9KaYWJk1M - I hope I am wrong and at least 50 to 60 have been shot on RED.
It is the same in France. I do not have numbers but I do not think there that much french movie in movie theater which have been shot on RED. So compared to what RED has done in Holywood, you cannot say RED is performing well in EU (UK is not a european country).
And for those who do not think RED is at war a little from Jarred himself: http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?63187-War...
 
I'm not sure why I'm replying to such an obviously, hmm, can't find a non-offensive word, I'll try strange, post.

Red is well established all over Europe, I shot Wallander in Sweden on Red in 2008, Camalot in Amsterdam has a shed load of them, Blixt in Copenhagen has a bunch that are working all the time, I could go on.

It seems that you're corellating a problem in Italy to the whole of Europe, it just doesn't fly.


Read the last "Cahier du cinéma" about the death of 35mm film, you will see the how RED vs Arri vs Aaton is evaluated in France.
Among the dp I talk to, not having an optical view finder is getting the argument number one for bashing Red..."old scool" type of thinking.

Patrick
 
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