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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED KOMODO vs GEMINI vs HELIUM COMPARISON

Komodo fares better with high iso than gemini and helium? I think so!
I share my colleague's opinion above that komodo looks 'more digital' than gemini / helium or other RED cameras. It just shows.
I think switching to other lenses may help a little, but it won't change the feeling that it's more 'digital'
However, for this price, we can work on real R3D files that are the best in the world. And this should be appreciated.
 
Phil Glowskey said:
Komodo fares better with high iso than gemini and helium? I think so!
I share my colleague's opinion above that komodo looks 'more digital' than gemini / helium or other RED cameras. It just shows.
I think switching to other lenses may help a little, but it won't change the feeling that it's more 'digital'
However, for this price, we can work on real R3D files that are the best in the world. And this should be appreciated.
Click to expand...

Whatever "digital" look may be there is easily graded out. What's nice about Komodo is what can't be graded out - namely global shutter, noise, etc - Komodo appears to handle really well.
 
Nick Morrison said:
Whatever "digital" look may be there is easily graded out. What's nice about Komodo is what can't be graded out - namely global shutter, noise, etc - Komodo appears to handle really well.
Click to expand...


Yes I agree. KOMODO is great at dealing with noise and what's best about the RED camera ... the r3d file format and workflow in editing programs (I'm currently working on PREMIERE PRO) is the best thing that can happen :)
 
really sorry everyone.. part 3 is finally up. been getting busy here again lately.. work is returning. decided to reshoot a bunch of this low light test over again because so many people reached out and said they wanted to include gemini low light mode in the test.

 
Aaron Green said:
Komodo looks noticebly sharper than even the Monstro in some shots. Is that due to a different type of OLPF?
Click to expand...

no monstro in these comparisons.. just gemini / helium / komodo.. the helium and komodo both have SKIN TONE HIGHLIGHT OLPF because that is what komodos OLPF is based on
 
Hard to tell without messing around with the raw clips, but I did not see much of anything in the street scenes that would make me want to shoot those above 800 ISO or maybe 1600 max. Looked like there was plenty of light for the shadows and the street lights seemed to hold well too at 800. One can see the fall off in shadow detail and increase in noise as one goes higher. Komodo is remarkably clean up to 3200.
 
I am not sure where to put this but:DSMC2 AND WEAPON FIRMWARE (Beta)
RELEASE HISTORY
VERSION
7.4.0b1
|
New features include: "Improved color reproduction of daylight light sources"

I find the green tint with Helium is gone with this update! In fact auto white balance with the same Litepanel lights and white card used to be about -7 but now is +1 and I no longer see any green tint in shadows, seems like a game changer and might be helpful in balancing between cameras.
 
Are you talking about the RED RANGER HELIUM AND GEMINI FIRMWARE (BETA) that was just released on 8/28/20? Is this specifically for Ranger models or could I use this firmware to update my "non-ranger" gemini? What is the benefit if any in terms of improvements does anyone know?

https://www.red.com/downloads/red-ranger-gemini
 
Well that's interesting.

"...DSMC2 AND WEAPON FIRMWARE (Beta) 7.4.0b1

Release Date 8/28/2020

This firmware supports DSMC2 MONSTRO, DSMC2 HELIUM, DSMC2 GEMINI, DSMC2 DRAGON-X, WEAPON 8K VV, WEAPON 8K VV Ana, WEAPON 8K S35, and WEAPON 6K CF cameras..."

So yes it can be applied to Gemini - https://www.red.com/downloads/dsmc2-gemini

And it does indeed change the colour of daylight sources more towards magenta by default.

Once you pull that magenta back to 'normal' though, the image still looks a little different than it did before, which I guess would be the "improved colour reproduction".

Thanks for the heads up Jon.

Edit - And thanks Tim for all these comparison and Komodo test videos!
 
Andrew Reese said:
Are you talking about the RED RANGER HELIUM AND GEMINI FIRMWARE (BETA) that was just released on 8/28/20? Is this specifically for Ranger models or could I use this firmware to update my "non-ranger" gemini? What is the benefit if any in terms of improvements does anyone know?

https://www.red.com/downloads/red-ranger-gemini
Click to expand...

Yes, there is a version for Ranger and "non-ranger". I think the images, at least for Helium are much nicer skin tones and no green shift. For Gemini, would expect it to go a little more magenta, since it was closer to neutral to start with. I used to have to dial in -10 to my Litepanel Gemini's but now when set to 5600 (or 5000) they measure very neutral. No offset on lights and none needed in camera. I checked with a bunch of different Sigma Cine lenses, and they are all pretty neutral and within about 50 degrees from one another. I like this beta.
 
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Kelvin and Tint values that represent the white balance of the scene now use the Daylight locus rather than the Plankian locus. Kelvin values for light sources in the range 1700K to 4000K have their Tint behave has per the Plankian locus. Kelvin values 5000K and above have their Tint values behave as per the Daylight locus. For Kelvin values between these ranges there is a smooth interpolation of Tint behaviour. The purpose of the change to Daylight locus values for Kelvin and Tint is to represent natural and artificial daylight light sources with Tint values closer to zero, and also so default color temperature Kelvin and Tint settings in the daylight range have less visual green bias due to real-world daylight light sources appearing to have a slight green tint on the Plankian locus.

Graeme
 
Graeme,

Thanks alot for posting this it helps alot in knowing how to grade different scenes from different times of day and from different lighting with different color Temperatures!
 
Thanks Graeme, makes sense.

And even more so after a quick search (shared here for anyone who's interested) -

"...In physics and color science, the Planckian locus or black body locus is the path or locus that the color of an incandescent black body would take in a particular chromaticity space as the blackbody temperature changes. It goes from deep red at low temperatures through orange, yellowish white, white, and finally bluish white at very high temperatures..." - Wikipedia

An explanation of the difference between the Planckian Locus and the Daylight Locus -

https://www.waveformlighting.com/te...-body-and-the-reconstituted-daylight-spectrum
 
Graeme and Les -- so so interesting, thanks for the explanation and the update to the firmware!
 
Has anyone upgrade Gemini to this recent v7.4 firmware? If so how did the image change on Gemini Sensor specifically?

Overall I have been really happy with the color reproduction and standard tint settings SOOC that I am getting with firmware v7.3 on Gemini and fear that firmware v7.4 may push the Gemini sensor too far towards magenta as the image on v7.3 is already pretty neutral to my eyes and sometimes only requires a (- 1-2 green tint) to balance neutral. Sometimes I even like a little hint of green with my Gemini and Leica-R's and leave it alone as it reminds me more of Alexa.

I find that my Komodo ST has less green tint than typical with DSCM2 (a lot less than Helium) but in turn falls way more towards magenta overall (+ 2-5 magenta tint more than my Gemini with v7.3) and right now I have been having to dial the Komodo to (+ 2-3 green tint) to balance with Gemini close to neutral. I still probably prefer color out of Gemini with v7.3 over Komodo so I would like to know if DSCM2 firmware v7.4 is going to push the color reproduction of Gemini more in line with what I am getting out of Komodo?
 
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