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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red is a consumer camera!

Whoa Peter...what kind of DOP?

Even the most accomplished cinematographers are willing to work with another, unknown format for any number of reasons.

Do most prefer 35? As of now, probably. But it's a changing world, and Red is at the forefront.

This guy sounds like a douche, but DP's I admire and respect have worked with cameras that might be 'below' them because they like the story, the filmmaker, or the challenge, or for any number of reasons...including much-needed cash!
 
Jeremy Torrie said:
This guy sounds like a douche, but DP's I admire and respect have worked with cameras that might be 'below' them because they like the story, the filmmaker, or the challenge, or for any number of reasons...including much-needed cash!
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Every time anyone fires up a 7D for a paid gig they are working with a camera that's beneath them- usually because of budget.

Nevertheless I know I've turned in great images with it.

If I can turn in good work with a DSLR, then any DP even vaguely worthy of the title should have no problems turning in good work on a Red camera.
 
There is a very long list of top DPs that seem to have no problem shooting RED. In fact, it is their 1st choice. I guess this guy isn't on the list yet. :-)

Jim
 
Not a red, but...

A few years back I showed up for this gig in which I was supposed to shoot some b-roll footage of sports cars with a xl-h1. A couple of journalists were there to test drive the cars and suddenly one of then with a Sony z1 says this aloud for my client to hear: "Ha! What a piece of junk! You should've hired me instead to shoot your footage." To which I couldn't resist, so I replied: "If you need work so desperately, meet with me after the event and maybe I can hire you to assist me in some future assignment." Needless to say, that was the end of that. Ironically, later that day, his camera died and I helped him out taping a quick interview for him with my piece of junk :-)
 
I'm tired of hearing the same thing from some DPs. At a couple of occasions I've told the DP that a "Pro DP" would've insisted on shooting something else if he thought the RED wasn't good enough. Very well knowing that wouldn't get (or want) a job with that DP again. Life's too short for bullshit like that.
 
Tony Lorentzen said:
I'm tired of hearing the same thing from some DPs. At a couple of occasions I've told the DP that a "Pro DP" would've insisted on shooting something else if he thought the RED wasn't good enough. Very well knowing that wouldn't get (or want) a job with that DP again. Life's too short for bullshit like that.
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It's the shallowest form of argument, isn't it....

Graeme
 
Been there.
DP grumpy over __________. You fill in the blank. This time it happened to be the Red One putting a bee in his bonnet. OK, the guy is obviously insecure, whiny, and wants to throw you and you gear under the bus.
However, Chris' suggestion is the only valid one here. The best thing to do in those circumstances is to suck it up, finish the day, and not be available to work with him next time. Obviously, if you're on a show with the guy, you're stuck with him for months, but hopefully you would have sniffed out his behavior in your interview, in prep, or when shooting hair and makeup tests, and bailed on the job before the start.
The WORST thing you can do is engage people who behave this way. You stoop to their level, and validate their POV. If you pack up your gear and leave, the producer, director, agency folks, and client will all remember you as the loony owner/operator who put them in a bind for no reason. You'll never be able to shake that reputation... and in the process you may give a bad name to ALL owner/operators.
And with regards to DPs "choice" of cameras, often, VERY often these days, it's a fait accompli before they are on the job. Agency people are tripping over themselves trying to be cool by shooting with DSLRs, even when the camera is is sitting on a Fisher 10, surrounded by thirty crew members and lights and trucks. I don't get it. See my "Race To The Bottom" thread.
As far as his behavior... who knows? Maybe he had a brand new Alexa that he's worried about making the monthly nut on (maybe he's new to owning gear) Maybe he wanted to shoot film. Maybe he had a bad experience (or even two) with a Red One. I know it's sacrilege to say on this forum, but some individual Reds have had recurring problems, some release builds have introduced widespread (but by no means universal) stability problems, and the wide adoption and ownership of this camera by a variety of people (some of whom with no camera or camera-owning experience) has meant that a lot of "packages" are being rented out with substandard accessories, making a very spotty track record for some individual end users.
Kevin, in my opinion you absolutely did the right thing. You gritted your teeth, acted like a professional, and got through the job. Good for you. Make sure you decline the invitation to work with this guy next time.
Cheers,
Harry
 
I was editing a spot for a DP friend and the agency guy was complaining about everything. He said the camera the DP used was crap, he said the lighting was crap, he said the audio was crap...blah, blah, blah....and he was saying this sitting next to the DP....

Anyway, we cut something together that "barely met his standards" and he left.
Then the DP was telling me what a horror the shoot was and that the agency guy was a moron....blah, blah, blah.....

SO a few months later the DP wants to know if I can "help" the agency guy on another project that was editing only and I said....Hmmmm, I think I am busy for the next 20 years...sorry. Of course the agency guy took afront to that and said "He would remember that next time he had a bigger budget".....blah, blah, blah....
 
Anyone, whether it be a DP, ad agency producer or director, who knocks the RED One while championing Arri or Panavision or other film cameras certainly has selective memories when it comes to reliability and quality of image.

I've had many, many technical hiccups with Arri, Panavision and the labs which process the film. I've lost hours on set because a bad cable shorted out the circuit board on a Panavision camera. We pulled the B cam out of the truck and the bad cable, which the AC only realized was bad after it shorted out the B Cam's board, now left us dead in the water for hours. We were lucky we were shooting in the valley, only a few miles away from Panavision. But we still lost hours on a very difficult day's filming.

And what about "hairs" in the gate? Or worse, not knowing there was a "hair" and seeing it in dailies. Or the dreaded call from the associate producer at 8 a.m. to tell you that you lost an entire day's work in the lab. And that day's work included an actor's gut wrenchnig bravura performance, a $10,000 high fall and a $50,000 car crash and explosion. Hmmmmm...

As previous posters have mentioned more eloquently and expertly than I, every image capture system has pluses and minuses. Thanks to Jim and company, RED's plus column grows by the day, and the minus column dwindles. That's a trend I believe most filmmakers can live with. Indeed, more are embracing it every day.
 
Generally when people run their mouth, it's a sign of lack of confidence.

A craftsperson who blames the tool is ignorant.

Do the best with what you have and shut up. It's all so easy.

Being a professional has more to do with your work and how you carry yourself, when people have preferences, that is OK, when they are tool dependant, then they themselves seem to often be "tools".

David
 
Real professionals buckle down and get the job done, preferably on time, on budget and with the desired results; in other words, they perform their tasks. Amateurs and less than stellar personalities bitch endlessly about god knows what until finally someone calls them out and asks them to get off set.

Of course, everyone has a bad day every now and then. Usually a professional won't let it get so bad that he starts whining on-set though...and even worse, in-front of clients.
 
Having worked with Alexa, I can say we had occassional hiccups. Does that make it a bad camera? No, not at all. Yet, listening to some of the RED bashing (which seems to be decreasing) you would think Alexa was incapable of failure. In reality it's going through some of the same growing pains R1 went through. Arri will get a pass because of the history in the industry, and that's fine. RED is doing just fine, despite a much shorter track record. With Epic they are making it that much easier to make the transition from film to digital. Some will embrace this, others will be kicking and screaming.

Kevin, I agree with others, you did the right thing. All you can do is act professional and hope you never have to work with that person again.
 
Every camera (and recording format or system) has its strengths and weaknesses, which I generally outline to the director and producer before beginning the shoot, so when we shoot, there are few surprises. If for some reason, everyone is dead set on using the Canon 7D (hasn't happened yet), I'm sure I'd outline all the issues up front and then proceed to do my best.

(Now if the Canon 7D just turned out to give me a lot of heartache, perhaps I'd be the one grossing about using a "toy" on a pro shoot, who knows...)

The whole "professional" moniker can be a bit tedious when it comes to gear, either the item gets the job done or it doesn't. It doesn't matter to me if a common household light bulb is "professional" or not if it gets the particular job done.

But obviously the Red One is a professional camera -- for one thing, not a lot of consumer video cameras cost well-over $20,000!
 
Steve Sherrick said:
Kevin, I agree with others, you did the right thing. All you can do is act professional and hope you never have to work with that person again.
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Thank you everyone for helping me vent!! And Steve hope to see you again this year at NAB, hope things have been going well for you. Got a gig next week with Alexa let you all know how it is to work with a pro camera! :001_tt2:
 
Erik Franzén said:
Usually a professional won't let it get so bad that he starts whining on-set though...and even worse, in-front of clients.
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How about Christian Bale? :)
 
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