Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED Engineers are awesome.

Nick Shaw said:
I don't see anything there about 3D LUTs, so I think the latter is the case.

REDgamma on the EVF/LCD, and REDlogFilm out of the SDI for downstream processing will be very useful.
Click to expand...

This.

I would re-ask for a linear in-camera signal again, if this come true.

YES I do have applications for that Graeme.
(But that is perhaps what the ACES button is for...)

But an unalterable linear 320/5600 "untouchable" signal, could really come in handy on a rather biggish thing I'm involved in... :)
WHiteballanced would be good too, but not an absolute necessity.

(Geee... once U show them the candies...)

Heh, heh, heh
 
Gunleik Groven said:
T

But an unalterable linear 320/5600 "untouchable" signal, could really come in handy on a rather biggish thing I'm involved in... :)
WHiteballanced would be good to, but not an absolute necessity.
Click to expand...

THIS. I might debate you on the 320 vs 400 - but yeah.

You need to have BOTH "fixed/locked" WB and also "non-fixed/locked WB - only fixed/locked ISO/GAMMA" modes to cover the better workflows.
 
Mark L. Pederson said:
THIS. I might debate you on the 320 vs 400 - but yeah.

You need to have BOTH "fixed/locked" WB and also "non-fixed/locked WB - only fixed/locked ISO/GAMMA" modes to cover the better workflows.
Click to expand...

I agree on all points.

Haven't been so "workflow-signalchain" hyped in a while.... :)
 
Gunleik Groven said:
I agree on all points.

Haven't been so "workflow-signalchain" hyped in a while.... :)
Click to expand...

Well ... looks to be a monster step in the right direction - but the future of all high-end workflows for cinema is 3D LUTs. And when 3D LUTs can be applied in the cameras signal path - and stored in meta data - that's when shit gets real. Fast.
 
Mark,

and I'm really not being facetious, but after seeing that the "gone girl" crew did not even use a DIT on set. Where and how are you seeing the LUT applications as most useful.

In the wrong hands this stuff can be disastrous.

Battistella
 
David Battistella said:
Mark,

and I'm really not being facetious, but after seeing that the "gone girl" crew did not even use a DIT on set. Where and how are you seeing the LUT applications as most useful.

In the wrong hands this stuff can be disastrous.

Battistella
Click to expand...

David - there was no DIT on The Knick either. It's not about that.

What it is about is the fact that with a 3D LUT ... you can do ANYTHING.

It's putting the LAB in the camera in an even more advanced way than the RAW parameters. And it's non destructive.
 
Ivan Kovax said:
Brilliant. I want to know more about the ACES proxy. What is that about?
Click to expand...
ACES Proxy is an image in ACES colour space, but encoded with a specific log coding (see here if you want the technical detail) rather than the linear float coding normally used in ACES. It means ACES image data can be sent via a 10 or 12 bit SDI signal for processing with a LUT box, FilmLight Flip or similar.
 
For sure.

Does this mean any third party LUT?

I see see and understand the usefulness (client monitor, etc)
i like the idea of ballpark looks in camera but final looks really need to be left to grading. The way shots are used in edited material often call for a different grade based on what the incoming and outgoing shots they are joined too.

I see see the need and creative potential though. More of a philosophical discussion of intended looks and how looks on set carry over.

Battistella
 
David Battistella said:
For sure.

Does this mean any third party LUT?

I see see and understand the usefulness (client monitor, etc)
i like the idea of ballpark looks in camera but final looks really need to be left to grading. The way shots are used in edited material often call for a different grade based on what the incoming and outgoing shots they are joined too.

I see see the need and creative potential though. More of a philosophical discussion of intended looks and how looks on set carry over.

Battistella
Click to expand...

David -

The thing about 3D LUTs is that you have to power to effect colors in a very, very high fidelity way. You can map any specific color value to a different value - or a range of values to a different range of values. You can emulate a specific film stock in a very organic, subtle way that could never even be approached with a CDL or even an RMD.

It's not some "dark art" reserved for super geeks and DITs only.

Yes - for years big post production facilities would bullshit their clients that only they had the "magic LUT" to make the clients DI look correct, etc. etc. bla bla bla - but now most good DITs have more knowledge of modern workflows than employees of large post facilities. That is a fact.

A 3D LUT is big spreadsheet. THIS exact value in = THIS exact value out.

There are more 3D LUT creation and editing tools coming to market that make it easy to create and edit 3D LUTs.

And there's TONS of crazy creative things you can do beyond emulating a celluloid film stock - as you can target and effect specific ranges of color values - like ... skintones :)

It's happening now.

It's not just about display luts and signal path workflows and color space transforms. That is the obvious. But that only scratches the surface of the power of 3D LUTs.

3D LUTs are a SERIOUS creative tool.

Mark my works - they will become very commonplace very soon.
 
Last edited:
Mark.

I agree. The more tools the better. The more I can get out of my workflow, the better.

I think it's all great. I'm just lobbing you softballs for the benefit of everybody. :)


Battistella
 
Just to add.

I aint really into anything that holds people back, limits creativity or retards progress.
 
Ivan, ACES Proxy is a mode defined by the Academy for sending ACES encoded image data over a low (i.e. 10bit) bit depth link rather than how it would typically go out to a EXR. The colour space is ACES, and the linearity is a specific log based encoding. It's designed for on-set grading in an ACES environment. On other cameras you have to take their normal colour log output and put that through a magic box that does an IDT. With this mode, the output is direct to ACES.

Graeme
 
Graeme Nattress said:
Ivan, ACES Proxy is a mode defined by the Academy for sending ACES encoded image data over a low (i.e. 10bit) bit depth link rather than how it would typically go out to a EXR. The colour space is ACES, and the linearity is a specific log based encoding. It's designed for on-set grading in an ACES environment. On other cameras you have to take their normal colour log output and put that through a magic box that does an IDT. With this mode, the output is direct to ACES.

Graeme
Click to expand...

Brilliant. Well done.
 
As ever, Graeme's answer is better than mine!
 
Corey Robson said:
Incorporating ACES output in camera will definitely be huge :)

I hope DEB as an option can be introduced in these settings as well. Had to say it...
Click to expand...

i am going to guess:

DEB will be enabled as a checkbox in camera to send a flag to sdk enabled apps to turn it on. Since the camera is feeding a scaled 1920hd signal from 6k through the SDI and hdmi, I don't think we will see an "in camera" solution unless you'd maybe want to give up high frame rates or other processor intensive stuff (I sure don't) because noise reduction in camera would take processing power (think of how long it takes neat video to render a frame.

So me, I prefer to worry about it later in the chain.

So, for those "worried about" low light noise, you can maybe tell the camera to tell the software to turn it on automatically in any app that would have that sdk implemented.

Battistella
 
So will 3d LUTs be able to load into cam or no? Not clear yet?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top